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Can others post what the wheel well measurements are on their cars that have a 'suspension kit',be it SLP's Bilstein, the ProKit, or other (non-cut spring) version. I've got a '02 SS vert with factory/SLP installed Bilstein suspension. Car sits fine in the rear, but I'd like to lower the front a bit. Here's what it measures with SLP Bilstein: Garage floor to wheelwell lip: +/-1/8 REAR: RR 25 7/8", ...LR 26 1/4" FRONT 27 1/4" (both sides same) Tire to wheelwell lip: +/-1/8 REAR: Rightside=1 1/4", ...Leftside=3/4" FRONT: Rightside=2 1/4", ...Leftside 2 1/4"
The car does sit level(front to rear), but with the taller front wheelwell, it would look a bit nicer to lower the front about an inch. I'm considering switching to Eibach Prokits, but after reading this post,Eibach sag hell... There are obviously some unhappy people. Thanks for any info... Kevin
-------------------- Kevin Kolvenbach, 2002 Sunset Orange SS (#3455), Convertible, Black top, Ebony leather, Bilstein, ASR, 6SP w/Hurst, 345HP Dual-Dual Posts: 1046 | From: Pine Bush, NY USA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Just talked to my sales rep. Will not see the springs untill at least April. Posts: 159 | From: Westfield, Massachusetts | Registered: May 2002
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Hey Chris, ...that grill will be 'restoration parts' by the time I get it ...no rush.
Posts: 1046 | From: Pine Bush, NY USA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Why not just save teh cash and just cut off, half a loop of the SLP Eibach springs??? That is what I did and LOVE it!
26 7/8" Front 27" Rear (my rear tire is a little taller than stock)
More pics through the sig . . . .
[ 01. March 2003, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Xsta Z 28 ]
-------------------- My Cars: 2000 Bright Rally Red Camaro SS Convertible 2002 Electron Metallic Blue Berger SS T-Top 2004 Silver Birch Metallic Silverado 2500HD Duramax Ext. Cab. S.B. 4x4
posted
That looks excellent but I understand Kevin's reservation about cutting. Could you get the prokit and just install the fronts? Or would that make the suspension squirrely?
-------------------- 2000 SS Convertible, M6, Onyx Ebony leather, Hurst, Monsoon, 12 CD SLP Options: Syntech, Mats, Fobs, Plaque, Cover. SLP add ons:SS Grille, SLP Lid & K&N, smooth bellows, SLP CAI.... Other Add Ons: TTS LT headers Y Pipe and Cats, TR 220, LS6 Intake, GMMG, ASP underdrive pulley, Hypertech 180 stat, Granatelli MAF, Rapid Motor Sports custom tuning, BMR STB, LCAs, Relocation brackets, Adj. Panhard, Don Goetz bolt on SFCs, Hotchkis springs, Hurst Billet Plus shifter Appearance: FRCs with afterthoughts SS overlays, Mark's Caliper decals on black painted calipers, AR TTIIs (Gunmetal Spokes) with BFG Gforce T/A KDWs...
96 Impala SS Black Flowmasters SSOA, WCA, NAISSO Posts: 3403 | From: Woodcliff Lake, NJ, USA | Registered: Dec 2000
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Andy, cutting the springs is definitely the inexpensive way out, ...and quite honestly it seems to work quite well (you're car looks great, ...I still like the Blue one though). Like Rich mentioned, I'm one of those that doesn't want to cut the stock equipment, ......UNLESS however I come across a set of Bilstein's (lightly used) at a decent price (which I'm hoping). It's funny, ...when you really start looking into things, ...the 'research' gets more involved, ...like my question on the LCA angle, ...OR how the car is about 3/4" higher (wheelwell to tire) on the driver's side (I've seen posts where this is 'common'). I haven't even changed anything, and there are measurements all out of sorts... My goal is to have the car sit a bit lower than stock, ...but not 'slammed'. In doing so, I'd like to: -keep the LCA's at the recommended angle. (LCA relocation brackets?) -keep the rear centered (adj. panhard) -relevel the rear side to side. (??) -lower the front about 1" (cut another set of "SLP" spec'd Eibach's, ...or install prokits, ...or ??) ...I have the same question here as Rich, ...will installing prokits on front ONLY cause an 'issue' (ie. squirriness??) ...sorry for the long reply...
Kevin
Posts: 1046 | From: Pine Bush, NY USA | Registered: Aug 2001
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I am pretty sure JeffY said not to cut springs. Why I dont recall. I will check with him Monday... but I know his line... he engineered the Bilstein pkg as a pkg where all the parts compliment each other. Start swapping parts, and you impact performance.
You may want to run this past Steve Spohn. You can try emailing him.
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Chris, ...If you do talk to JeffY, ...ask him about the LCA angle on Bilstein equipped cars. If mine is typical, ...then one would think SLP would have included relocation brackets as part of the Bilstein package...???
Thanks... Posts: 1046 | From: Pine Bush, NY USA | Registered: Aug 2001
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As for cutting springs, yes an Engineer (JeffY) will say no. Why because they are conservative, and rightfully so. They spent many hours and dollars engineering these spring so of course they'll say no, you are messing with their design. They also look in generalities. It is not like we suggest to cut the coil spring in half, one is just removing a little bit of the dead end. But the art of cutting springs has been around for an eternity. What did Hot Rodders and Street Machine builders do before all these high end spring manufacturers made all these new springs? Cut them. What do you do if there is not one spring manufacturer out there thet gets the stance right?
I fully repsect your reservations, I was concerned too, and did not do this willy nilly. I bet if you did a poll and or research you'd come up with 50/50 on yes/no for cutting.
For your questions, My answers.
My SS rides lop sided as well, lower on the PS than DS, why? One would think it would be lower on the DS since that is where one sits all the time, but oh well. I guess if I wanted to fix it the rear spring could be shimmed a bit.
The LCA's I noticed near complete wheel hop elimination with my relocation brackets, but if you were to replace the LCA's I would recommend NOT using poly/poly bushings. I used rubber at the body mount and poly at the axle mount, been very pleased. Granted I replace the LCA's more for appearance reasons.
PHB did it becasue of the larger wheels and tires. I did have some wheel rubbing issues due to the axle being off center. With stock wheels, I wouldn't really see the need except for appearance again.
I thought about the mixing of different springs too. But I gave up on that idea since that would mean I'd have three complete sets of springs. My Stock ones (4X4), the SLP Eibachs and the Eibach Prokit. My other concern with mixing springs is that they all have different spring rates, some are prograssive, some are straight. Uhg, confusing So that is why I did the SLP Eibach and cut them in the front. I felt the ride in back with the SLP's was perfect and the front just need to come down ~1/2"
My comment on the Prokit. The Berger has it. Now combining it with the Koni 1LE shocks it is an absolute teeth jarrer! The front rides at a PERFECT height, but the back IMHO is too low. Also the passenger side tire makes contact with the outside wheel well quite often, so I may have to invest in a panhard for the Berger, even though I don't want to mod it, but I am worried that one of these days I'll hit a bad enough bump that I'll do serious damage to the body work.
So is this a long enough reply??? Granted a lot of this is my opinion, and base upon my research and findings. My ultimate answer:
Cut the front SLP Eibach springs, whether they are yours or replacements (new or used) No more that 1/2 a loop of the bottom. Even go conservative and lop off 1/3 a loop.
If you look at NEW springs seriously look at the Hotchkis 1" drop. I like it better than the Prokit. Here is my buddy Steve's car:
Put in the relocation brackets. You'll be happy.
Panhard, just wait and see.
I hope this helped and did not confused the issue more.
Andy
[ 02. March 2003, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Xsta Z 28 ]
Posts: 608 | From: Schaumburg, IL | Registered: Sep 2000
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I don't want to speak for Jeff but I seem to remember him saying that SLP Eibach springs with Bilstein shocks does not lower the car below the "range" that is acceptable stock. That is why no relocation brackets for the RCLAs.
XSTA has alluded to the fact that many of his mods are more for asthetics. He did a super job and his cars look awesome. Like all mods I think you have to be sure what you are trying to achieve and approach it that way. Fo instance, if you want the best perfomance panhard rod and RLCAs you should consider heim joints instead of poly or rubber. Poly or rubber will flex or bind. But the hiem joints are clunky and noisy. So you have to know what you want.
All of the cars look great. I love Xsta's friends car. It has a great stance.
Good luck! Enjoy!
Posts: 5946 | From: Litchfield, NH, USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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not this has anything to do with Kevin's question.... a little piece of SS/Firehawk trivia.... SLP stopped using Eibach as their spring supplier with the 01 model year.
Posts: 2441 | From: Chester, NY | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by DanA_F99_1977: XSTA has alluded to the fact that many of his mods are more for asthetics. He did a super job and his cars look awesome. Like all mods I think you have to be sure what you are trying to achieve and approach it that way.
Yes, many of my changes are for asthetic reasons, and you statement is VERY true, "what do you want to acheive".
BTW, thank you for the compliments.
I am not building a road racer, or a dragster, but I do not and will not compromise, safety for appearance. Heck I drive a convertible, since I want the topless fun!
I weight the choice on what do I want to accomplish. I changed the springs for many reasons, stiffer ride, better handling and better look. I changed my sway bars for stiffer cornering. I put in relocation brackets for better striaght line performance, but gave in to 18" wheels which kill traction. I have a torque arm for better traction.
Ultimatly Rich what do you want? Looks, handling, road racer, dragster.
Me of course I want it all, so, compromises are made, but ALL of my choises have a link back to "how does it look." AND are safety consious, I certainly do not want to kill myself in my favorite car!
Posts: 608 | From: Schaumburg, IL | Registered: Sep 2000
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As the LCA's keep the axle horizontally straight, the panhard bar stops side to side movement and the torque arm resistes axle wrap. Why not offset the LCA's 1" and use the torque arm from spohn to help with wheel hop?
Posts: 159 | From: Westfield, Massachusetts | Registered: May 2002
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...Thanks for the replies so far...very useful feedback. Chris, "SLP stopped using Eibach as their spring supplier with the 01 model year." ...OK, ...this is new news, ..what springs DID they put in '02's???
Andy, ...your post is definitely not too long, ...very informative, and VERY much appreciated. Your friends car has an awsome stance!
I'm not one to drag or autocross, ...yet I want the car to perform AND maintain a somewhat smooth quite ride, (which it currently has). I'd categorize my goals as primarily appearance, ...with thoughts on improving performance wherever possible, ...obvious compromises are made here and there. The thought does apeall to me to be able to change things back if I decide, ...ie. bolt-on mods. I didn't mention I do have BMR LCA's (poly-rubber) and panhard(non-adj), primarily appearance, and Don Goetz bolt-on SFC's on order. Even as my goals are primarily appearance, If there is something I'm aware of (ie. LCA angle) that can be improved (and inexpensively), ...I'll most likely pursue it.
Thanks everyone...
Posts: 1046 | From: Pine Bush, NY USA | Registered: Aug 2001
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the springs are designed by SLP. Orginally they used Eibach as the manufacturer. I dont know who they swtiched to, but its still OE quality.
Posts: 2441 | From: Chester, NY | Registered: Feb 2000
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OK, you've peaked my interest! Just went out to check mine and yes the LCAs point up to the axle. For height, I'm at 27 1/2 in the rear and 28 in the front.
Thought - SLP TO springs are $25 for a front set - I may get a set of those to experiment with. Posts: 3403 | From: Woodcliff Lake, NJ, USA | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:Originally posted by DanA_F99_1977: XSTA has alluded to the fact that many of his mods are more for asthetics. He did a super job and his cars look awesome. Like all mods I think you have to be sure what you are trying to achieve and approach it that way.
Yes, many of my changes are for asthetic reasons, and you statement is VERY true, "what do you want to acheive".
BTW, thank you for the compliments.
I am not building a road racer, or a dragster, but I do not and will not compromise, safety for appearance. Heck I drive a convertible, since I want the topless fun!
I weight the choice on what do I want to accomplish. I changed the springs for many reasons, stiffer ride, better handling and better look. I changed my sway bars for stiffer cornering. I put in relocation brackets for better striaght line performance, but gave in to 18" wheels which kill traction. I have a torque arm for better traction.
Ultimatly Rich what do you want? Looks, handling, road racer, dragster.
Me of course I want it all, so, compromises are made, but ALL of my choises have a link back to "how does it look." AND are safety consious, I certainly do not want to kill myself in my favorite car!
Your very welcome. I love your cars. Great job!
Posts: 5946 | From: Litchfield, NH, USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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Rich, ..."thought - SLP TO springs are $25 for a front set", ... , ...you lost me here??, ...$25 a set for what springs??
Posts: 1046 | From: Pine Bush, NY USA | Registered: Aug 2001
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The body of the front ahocks are machined and thread all the way up the shock. You can dial in any height you want. The 12 way adjustable valve can be set for any ride you want. 3 or 4 is like stock, 5 or 6 like Bilsteins, 12 like cement, 1 is very loose (great for drags).
These shocks ain't cheap but they are versatile and very high quality. I love them.
Posts: 143 | From: Port Arthur, Texas, USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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Don't you need their springs though? It says modification to spring seats required if you don't?
Posts: 3403 | From: Woodcliff Lake, NJ, USA | Registered: Dec 2000
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That could be true, I have their springs so that wasn't a issue for me. I have Goldline 1.5" lowering springs in the back too. Right now I'm sitting Front 26.25" Rear 26.5" Driver side. (Pass side sits 1/8 to 1/4 low)
Unfortunately I don't have LCA relocation brackets on yet. I'm at 7 degrees below horizontal. I will be getting some as soon as I figure out what works on the Moser.
Posts: 143 | From: Port Arthur, Texas, USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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Most of you are not taking into consideration the drivers weight. Add 150 to 200 lbs. to the drivers seat and remeasure. Most cars are driven most of the time with only one person in the car, ie. the driver! Ergo the higher setting.
Posts: 376 | From: Friendswood, TX | Registered: Jun 2002
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Granted a lot of this is my opinion, and base upon my research and findings. My ultimate answer:
