FireChicken
11 Secret Herbs & Spices
Member # 2067
posted
Im planning to build a new computer over the christmas holidays, and putting together a list. Opinions, suggestions, did I leave anything out?
Also, this will be the first time I have every built one myself, so any pointers are welcome.
200 GB Hard Drive $152.00 ATI 9600 XT Graphics Card $160.00 1 GB PC3000 DDR Ram $159.00 Athlon XP 3000 Motherboard CPU $215.00 Sony DVD R/RW $300.00 DVD/CD R/RW $ 50.00 Soundlbaster 5.1 Soundcard $ 8.00 USB 2.0 port 5 ¼ front mount $ 25.00 Case, with powersupply $150.00
Total Cost… $1219.00
Posts: 686 | From: Texas: Hullabaloo, Caneck! Caneck! | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Looks pretty decent...You gonna buy your parts from www.pricewatch.com ? That's where i get all mine, best deals there.
For the Mobo, i'd probably buy an ASUS brand with the Athlon cpu. If you're geting the 9600 XT, might as well go all out and get the 9700 Pro...one of THE best ones out there. And I'm sure you can get a nice Sony dvd burner for under $300. I would AT LEAST get a Audigy 2 sound card, even the basic on only costs around $50. THen again, not sure what you will use your comptuer for either.
-------------------- 2004 Cavalier LS Sport Coupe Manual,Sunroof,16" Chrome, Zaino!!! http://community.webshots.com/user/pazbich3 Used to Drive: 2001 Camaro SS #3220 Posts: 2651 | From: Enola (Harrisburg Area), Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
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First of all, the system you listed will be great and you will love it!
Primary use can sway some decisions and really make a difference. Like Dan said the 9700 Pro in that price range rocks for gaming. I wouldn't be without an Audigy 2 card (for many reasons). I tend to lean Intel(Canterwood chipset) P4(with Hyperthreading) but I like to overclock the system and get more for my money. Unfortunatly the price climbs though as you start putting High speed memory in the system to do it. Then you get to play the cooling game!
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67-RSLong list....
Posts: 343 | From: Castle Rock, CO | Registered: Jun 2002
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FireChicken
11 Secret Herbs & Spices
Member # 2067
posted
Im planning to get a creative labs soundcard that will work with their 5.1 audio multiple speaker sets.
As for purpose, its a jack-of-all-trades machine. I will be doing some 3D modeling in SolidWorks, CAD/CAM stuff, as well as playing games. I will also be using it for math solver programs for school, a smidgen of audio/video work.
Also, I do buy my parts from Pricewatch. I didnt see anyting about the 9700 ATI graphics card. Actually, the reason Im picking an ATI is because I like the way their cards work, and I also like the interface software they include with them. Plus, the 9800 XT is in my price range at $160
Ditch the Sony DVD and get the Plextor 708a DVD +/- RW. Best DVD burner out there in my opinion, running in my rig right now.
ATI rocks, good choice. I've got the All In Wonder 9600 Pro in mine and I like it.
I'm an Intel man myself, but if I were to get a AMD based system, I would seriously look at a nForce based board with Soundstream audio like this one: Asus A7n8X Deluxe
That would allow you to cut out the audio card. Most onboard audio sucks, but the Soundstream I have heard good things about.
I am not a fan of VIA in any way, shape, or form, I usually steer people clear of them. But you basically have them, nVidia, and SiS when it comes to AMD chipsets.
Adjust that memory, you should not be using anything less then PC3200, which is the DDR400 spec, industry standard.
Good luck, I have built my last 4 computers and it can be a lot of fun. This is what I am running right now: P4C 2.8 ghz hyperthreaded CPU 1.5 gigs of Corsair XMS PRO PC3200 DDR SDRAM 2x 80 gig Maxtor Serial ATA hard drives in a Raid stripe. Intel D875PBZ motherboard ATI All in Wonder 9600 Pro Soundblaster Audigy 2 soundcard Pioneer DVD drive Plextor 708a DVD +/- RW drive Nexus fan controller Enermax 550 watt psu
Posts: 1296 | From: Saginaw, MI | Registered: May 2000
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FireChicken
11 Secret Herbs & Spices
Member # 2067
posted
I should probably mention at this point a few of the quirky things about me and computers.
I have an 80 gig external that is used as a backup for files, music, software, etc. In february I will be buying a 120-150 gig external harddrive to replace that one (my current one is full). I will also be using part of the 200 gig on the new computer as duplicate storage of this same data.
Also, for the dvd-burner, my primary interest in that is to create duplicate, back-up copies of my dvd movies. Basically, its a way to prevent movies I watch frequently from being screwed up. The Sony dvd burner i know will burn in formats that are compatible with most conventional dvd players.
Oh, and for the sound card, Im planning to buy a creative-labs 5 or 7 speaker surround sound setup, and you need one of their cards with the multiple outlets in order to get the surround sound. Everyone else in my family has the soundblaster stuff, adn I really really really like it.
posted
If you will be doing modeling with solidworks and CAD, i defintiely reccomend a top of the line graphics card, though the 9600 XT might cut it. I'm actaully an audiophile when it comes to comptuers, as I use my computer for entertainment such as movies and games. I also conside my computer MY LIFE!! Get nothing less than the audigy 2. I have that card and is AWESOME with my new Logitech Z680 speakers! You could seriously use them as your regular entertainment speakers if wanted. I also have a digital I/O card that hooks to my audigy card for me to run optical cable....but then again, i'm sure you dont need all that. I'm also partail to Intel, but I think right now AMD has the upper hand, just like ATi does over Nvidia. Gonna be a nice system no matter what. (yea i'm still running a P4 1.4GHz )
-------------------- 2004 Cavalier LS Sport Coupe Manual,Sunroof,16" Chrome, Zaino!!! http://community.webshots.com/user/pazbich3 Used to Drive: 2001 Camaro SS #3220 Posts: 2651 | From: Enola (Harrisburg Area), Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by DanPazich: If you will be doing modeling with solidworks and CAD, i defintiely reccomend a top of the line graphics card, though the 9600 XT might cut it. I'm actaully an audiophile when it comes to comptuers, as I use my computer for entertainment such as movies and games. I also conside my computer MY LIFE!! Get nothing less than the audigy 2. I have that card and is AWESOME with my new Logitech Z680 speakers! You could seriously use them as your regular entertainment speakers if wanted. I also have a digital I/O card that hooks to my audigy card for me to run optical cable....but then again, i'm sure you dont need all that. I'm also partail to Intel, but I think right now AMD has the upper hand, just like ATi does over Nvidia. Gonna be a nice system no matter what. (yea i'm still running a P4 1.4GHz )
Since the dawn of HT and the 800 mhz bus, the P4 has been faster top chip to top chip. The P4 Extreme Edition is faster then the Athlon 64, though I don't think FC wants to spend $900 on a CPU haha.
Dan is right though, if you get the Audigy 2 with the breakout box, you have tons of inputs and outputs, optical, coax etc. I used to have one with the original Audigy, but with my 2 I have some Creative speakers so I use their DIN connector.
The Plextor does all formats except for DVD-RAM, which unless you are going to do some serious archiving, is a dying format.
Posts: 1296 | From: Saginaw, MI | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I would have to agree with the majority of others on the Audigy 2 card. It has gotten rave reviews every time I've seen it mentioned. Check out this web site and think about it... http://www.soundblaster.com/products/audigy2/compare.asp
It's so easy when you're spending OPM(other people's money)! Looks like a pretty good setup you're thinking about there.
[ 09. December 2003, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: mikerc ]
Posts: 49 | From: Atlanta GA | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
What every one said above, but my own 2 cents:
I personally am an AMD guy because of cash issues. At the higher end, Intel P4 EE is better, but not by too much vs. the Athlon 64 (check out the comparison at www.anandtech.com). At the mid range both are compareable, but AMD is cheaper. At the low end, AMD is WAY better and WAY cheaper.
I've built a number of athlon systems, and the VIA chipsets haven't given me any probs, and it's what I'm using in my rig, but the nForce is better IMHO.
The audigy 2 and plextor are also two highly rated pieces of hardware. You should get good use out if it all. However, consider a Lite-on drive(s) if you want quality at a cheaper price point. They are top rated in CD burners and their DVD burners are pretty decent too.
Also, I would seriously consider Serial ATA RAID. I have two older WD 80 gig ATA-4 drives running in a serial raid setup and it is blazing. Given that you have a lot of storage space, you could really benefit from having two 100 gig hard drives rather than 1 200 gig. Also, based your your specs, you are not buying cheap stuff. Your MB is likely to come with RAID anyway. Might as well use it!
Finally, though pricewatch and pricegrabber are great, try to consolidate your purchases from a reputable retailer. Newegg is what I use. Prices that are the cheapest or within a few dollars of the cheapest and excellent customer service to boot. Plus you can save on shipping if you have a few larger orders.
Oh ya, one last but important thing: Cooling. Make sure you balance the cooling with noise issues. Seems like you have a pretty decent case lined up at $150. Antec or coolermaster? Make sure you consider the CPU cooling (stock vs "aftermarket" heatsink and fan), hard drive cooling (I use one fan to blow across my two drives), video card cooling (again stock vs "aftermarket", and case cooling. However, the more fans, the louder the case. Zalman makes a lot of quiet cooling options. I also use a nexus fan controller to control the three 70 cfm fans that I run on my rig. I can go from the noise equivalent for an SS with open headers to a Toyota Prius. Convenient. And remember the Artic Silver
Good luck!
NiravSS
-------------------- NiravSS Posts: 156 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Oct 2000
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FireChicken
11 Secret Herbs & Spices
Member # 2067
posted
Actually, that is just my budgeting for a case. I dont particularly care about noise, but I need a case that has a handle on it, to make it easy to move the new computer around. Im sure for what I will spend, I can get one with some decent insulation, but my current desktop just has the metal frame, no outer casing at all, so anything I get is going to be quieter than what I have.
Posts: 686 | From: Texas: Hullabaloo, Caneck! Caneck! | Registered: Aug 2003
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Niravss is right on the RAID. You should do that. Even if you encounter problems encoding in the raid setup, you'll have the two drives you can break up to use one seperate for encoding. One of my buddies found that he could not encode on the same drive as his swap. Though if you have enough RAM you can turn off the page file in Windows.
You might want to try a Vantec AeroFlow for your CPU cooler. I have the P4 version for my rig and it's very nice and very quiet. Also, Panaflo (Panasonic) makes top notch case fans that are very quiet as well.
Don't know of too many cases with handles, but you can get the hardware to do a handle yourself at just about any mod shop online. Also I suggest rounded cables, unless you are going to take a ton of time and fold those old ribbon ide cables for your optical drives, get rounded ones.
Oh, Newegg is awesome, I also get a lot of stuff from www.zipzoomfly.com, I have had no problems from them and they do free 2nd day delivery.
Posts: 1296 | From: Saginaw, MI | Registered: May 2000
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FireChicken
11 Secret Herbs & Spices
Member # 2067
posted
My main reason for having a 200 GB harddisk is because I plan to use 80-110 for data storage, and have about 60 gig full of program files for installed software. Whatever is left will be there for encoding, but encoding stuff is not the primary use for this computer, so a RAID setup with dual drives, while neat, is going to create more issues for me than it will solve.
Also, Ive never assembled a computer before, my only experience is installing PCI cards (video, network, etc), so any pointers, assistance on good walkthroughs and instructions for installing drives and other equipment, would be very useful. Thanks!
Posts: 686 | From: Texas: Hullabaloo, Caneck! Caneck! | Registered: Aug 2003
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Fbodfather
They don't make songs about Volvos.
Member # 1119
posted
OMG.....I guess it's a good thing I'm in the auto industry, 'cause I understood virtually NOTHING of what you guys are talking about!
(sitting in corner, feeling inadequate and stupid....)
-------------------- Posts: 749 | From: Detroit | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
FC: Actually, I think that the RAID would be most useful for you. Remember that with RAID, all of the multiple drives act as 1 physical drive, with whatever logical partitions you want on that. For example, I have two 80 gig hard drives. With my initial test setup, I had one 160 gig partition. It was all in one drive (C:). It all acted as one drive. You couldn't tell the difference except that it was twice as fast. Later I split up the drive, one partition for programs, one for music, another for videos, and a final one just for random storage. So, again, given what you are going to do with the computer, it would probably be really useful for you, especially since you are going to be spending the money anyway.
And I almost agree with everything Sizzle said, except that you should always have a swap file, unless you have over 3-4 gigs of RAM (those are arbitrary numbers). Basically, you can find out how much your swap file was being accessed via the "Peak Commit Charge" under the "Performance" tab of the Task Manager. If the Peak is below the total amount of RAM, then you aren't using your swap. (Not 100% correct, but good enough for govt work). For example, my peak commit charge right now is ~300,000. I have 768,000 kilobytes of RAM. Thus, increasing my RAM up to 1 gig is not going to really help me in my day to day windows use. However, if my use exceeds my ram size (again, this is a bit fuzzy here), then it goes to the swap. If you don't have a swap, then you take a HUGE performance hit. I'm not sure why your friend could not encode and have his swap file on the same drive. Probably had a slow computer. I doubt that would be a prob with FC's computer. It's definitely not a problem with me....I do it all of the time.
Regarding moveing the case: you can get these straps that wrap around the case for like $10. Pretty convenient. Also, some cases have wheels if you want too. Try to get some reviews on cases and use those as a guide.
Building a computer is easy. Just remember that you are your own technical support. If you can deal with that, then you'll be fine. The prob is that it is very nice to call up somebody when, after you've put it all together, it doesn't turn on. But, the fun of building something and making it work makes this project well worth the effort!
Tips: Well, I have too many to give. Try a couple google searchs....I'm sure you'll find what you need. Just post if you have a specific question.
Good luck!
NiravSS
-------------------- NiravSS Posts: 156 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Fbodfather: OMG.....I guess it's a good thing I'm in the auto industry, 'cause I understood virtually NOTHING of what you guys are talking about!
(sitting in corner, feeling inadequate and stupid....)
Now I'm sure the FbodFather totally understands when I feel the same way about cars.....I love my SS and I try to do stuff with it, but I'm soooo scared I'm going to screw up something. I feel REALLY STUPID all of the time on this board 'cause everyone here is so knowledgeable!
NiravSS
-------------------- NiravSS Posts: 156 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
FC, here is a link to a decent guide by Maximum PC magazine. I just threw this issue out since I never used it, but this is a good enough start to help you put together your pc.
I used to have a link to a good RAM optimizing guide but can't find it. But pretty much anymore unless you are going to be doing a lot of CAD or Photoshop, if you have 1 gig of RAM or more, turn off the swap. I have 1.5 in my rig and my swap is off, it is noticelably faster to me. However, I mostly use my machine for burning CD's, watching TV and DVD's.
[ 10. December 2003, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Sizzle ]
Posts: 1296 | From: Saginaw, MI | Registered: May 2000
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FireChicken
11 Secret Herbs & Spices
Member # 2067
posted
NiravSS: Are you talking about the paging file? I know how to adjust that, my notebook has a 1 GB paging file, and it helps a bit, but im probably going to upgrade to 1 gig real ram, anyway.
Fbodfather: dont feel bad, everyone has to start from somewhere!
Everyone els: Thanks so much for all the advice and links. If anyone knows some links to buy good cases, please post em, thats the one thing I dont know yet what or where Im going to buy.
Posts: 686 | From: Texas: Hullabaloo, Caneck! Caneck! | Registered: Aug 2003
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Seriously, you cannot go wrong with Antec (I think the Lanboy may fit your soltuion), Chenming, Lian Li, Coolermaster Wavemaster, or Chieftec. The Antec, Chemin and Chieftec pretty much use the same case but they are not as pricey as the others. Since you are going to be moving it alot, an aluminum case is light and better for cooling purposes, but more expensive. I have a Chenming aluminum case, nice and roomy and plenty of places to run cables out of the way. Try these stores for checking out cases, some are expensive, but you can at least get info on what you want and look for it somewhere else:
posted
Here's something I've learned - you never have enough USB ports.
All peripherals are now USB compatible. I have a 120 GB external HD, digital camera cable, printer, scanner, mouse, & external modem connected via USB. I ended up buying an external USB hub to handle these devices.
FireChicken
11 Secret Herbs & Spices
Member # 2067
posted
quote:Originally posted by JohnS: Here's something I've learned - you never have enough USB ports.
All peripherals are now USB compatible. I have a 120 GB external HD, digital camera cable, printer, scanner, mouse, & external modem connected via USB. I ended up buying an external USB hub to handle these devices.
It's something to consider for future upgrades.
Yes, I know. Im the king of USB-accessories. Im planning on putting in at least 1 USB 2.0 PCI card in the back, not to mention one of those rigs that fits in a 5.25 slot on the front, has 4 or 6 ports on it for my camera, my thumb drive, my portable harddisks, etc.
Posts: 686 | From: Texas: Hullabaloo, Caneck! Caneck! | Registered: Aug 2003
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I'll agree with the USB ports...unfortunately, i'm still using all USB 1.0 yet. Luckily I have 4 usb ports on the side of my monitor, and are all used up and also all the ports in the back. I cant even imagine what life was like before USB...oh wait..yeah i do..it sucked with serial, parallel...etc etc.
-------------------- 2004 Cavalier LS Sport Coupe Manual,Sunroof,16" Chrome, Zaino!!! http://community.webshots.com/user/pazbich3 Used to Drive: 2001 Camaro SS #3220 Posts: 2651 | From: Enola (Harrisburg Area), Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by FireChicken: NiravSS: Are you talking about the paging file? I know how to adjust that, my notebook has a 1 GB paging file, and it helps a bit, but im probably going to upgrade to 1 gig real ram, anyway.
Ya, the "swap file" or the "paging" file. The issue with the swap file basically depends on what you are going to do with your computer. Adding to what Sizzle already said, for people like me, who use their computer to use basic office applications, surf, watch DVD's, occasionally encode DIVX/XVID, etc., you really don't need a large swap file or a swap file at all. Again, look at your peak commit charge. However, FC, you suggested CAD and 3D modelling, which is very dependent on RAM and the memory used COULD possibly exceed your RAM size, depending on the size of the models, etc. Thus, if you DID NOT have a page/swap file and it went beyond the total size of the RAM, you could take a huge performance hit. 1 gig of RAM is a lot, but not that much when you imagine how big those CAD files are and if they are entirely loaded up into memory, you could be using all of that easily. This is why I suggested the higher (3-4 gig) number for FC.
Also, you can set a static swap file size at some amount, usually double the size of your total RAM for lesser systems, or the size of your RAM if you have a lot. Increases access time in same cases. Less noticable with WinXP because they have really optimized swap file use.
Basically, it doesn't matter too much. After you build your comp, try it out! Try with no swap file, and then try with one. I haven't noticed any difference with or without on regular use of my system. Different results for different people for sure here. Or you could just go crazy and buy five 1 gig DIMMS, install 4 in your computer and send me one and both of us will be set
NiravSS
-------------------- NiravSS Posts: 156 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
It's a nice system but a couple recommendations.
200 GB Hard Drive $152.00 Keep it and go either with a Maxtor/WD
ATI 9600 XT Graphics Card $160.00 Would look at a ATI 9700 or 9700pro. You wont be sorry with the investment
1 GB PC3000 DDR Ram $159.00 Update the Pc3000 to DDR400 or Pc3200 with heat spreaders
Athlon XP 3000 Motherboard CPU $215.00 An Asus A7n8X Deluxe VEry good board and has the Nforce2 chipset with intergraded sound. Cpu is good
Sony DVD R/RW $300.00 Go with a pioneer A06 for around $150
DVD/CD R/RW $ 50.00 LiteOn can beat the price and durability
Soundlbaster 5.1 Soundcard $ 8.00 Ditch it
USB 2.0 port 5 ¼ front mount $ 25.00 MB has 2.0 on it don't know if u wanted extra.
Case, with powersupply $150.00 Antec case with 400 watt suppy.
Also few things not mentioned case cooling go with the 2 in the back and the one up front. go with and approved amd cp heatsink and fan coolmaster has some decent ones. Don't forget the little floppy drive. Posts: 2 | Registered: Dec 2003
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I'm also partail to Intel, but I think right now AMD has the upper hand, just like ATi does over Nvidia. Gonna be a nice system no matter what. (yea i'm still running a P4 1.4GHz ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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