posted
Earlier this year EMCC had their monthly track rental at Milan Dragway.I raced the Mopar guy I work with in my Brickyard 400 SS against his Dodge Challenger.His girlfriend took the video. It was hosted on a site and was never copyrighted.Our club hosted this video on the club web site. The video company never asked it to be taken down and now want to sue for $10,000 damages.Funny thing is that this company never asked my permission to host this video either since I was one of the cars that was racing.It has cost the webmaster of our club $500 so far.His lawyers say that we own all rights to any pictures and video taken at our events and anyone that wishes to use them needed our written consent.Here is the e-mail from the video host site. What legal action can the club take?
To: Eastern Michigan Camaro Club and "Whom this may Concern",
It has been brought to my attention that the E-Video that has been produced by E-Video Productions on link http://www.emcamaro.org/Video/Pete%20vs%20HC%202.wmv that does not have the written permission by E-Video Productions and other ownership affiliates to edit, broadcast, ETC on its web-site or by other means. This E-Video on http://www.emcamaro.org/Video/Pete%20vs%20HC%202.wmv clearly states that the sole ownership of E-Video Productions / Copyright 2002. Other violations include using and having such E-Video as a "downloadable file" in which is strictly prohibited.
Please remove E-Video from the http://www.emcamaro.org/Video/Pete%20vs%20HC%202.wmv and other affiliated web sites / other means of broadcasting immediately, or face the penalty of Copyright Violation of "$10,000 plus other court costs" per violation if not removed with by 11/10/2003 noontime. Anyone, persons, web sites, and other means that don't have permission, that have downloaded this file from your web site http://www.emcamaro.org/Video/Pete%20vs%20HC%202.wmv are also in direct violation of this Copyright. All recipients that have downloaded this file "CAN and WILL" be prosecuted to the extent of the law required, if used and/or sent in form of E-mail, used on other web sites, Ect...
NOW, if you want to put this E-Video on your site, you have to request written permission from E-Video Productions and other ownership affiliates with some costs $$$ that may be applied for E-Video. You will not be allowed to have this E-Video file on your server, but will be able to acquire a link on the E-Video Productions Server to where you can acquire this E-Video. This E-Video will not be allowed to be used as a "downloadable file format", but only as a readable format under the E-Video Productions broadcast format.
P.S. - I guess that people go out of their way to take someone's property and broadcast it on other web-site, "Ect" for there own personal use before asking first. You didn't even give me credit for this E-Video and / or didn't even ask if you could use it to begin with. Think about it, if I took your photos and /or information off of your web site and use it without your permission, I would be getting somewhat of the same letter from you. Now, if you would have contacted me about using this E-Video on your web site, then certain things could have been avoided like this letter I had to write.
If you want to use this E-Video, you have to get permission from me and maybe we can make some sort of a deal? Now, if you continue to broadcast and disregard to respond this letter for E-Video Productions violation after 11/10/2003 noontime, then you'll face prosecution.
quote:Originally posted by 2002Z4CSS: The video company never asked it to be taken down and now want to sue for $10,000 damages. ..
quote:Originally posted by 2002Z4CSS: if not removed with by 11/10/2003 noontime.
That's not how I read it
Seems to me they're saying take it it down by noon today or we will sue you.
I don't understand why it would have cost your host $500 so far.
My question would be, is the video worth fighting over?!?
I'd take it down, advise the fellow you've abided his request, and advise him that he must ask for and receive permission from the EMCC to videotape and post any of their events.
Posts: 4222 | From: Winnipeg MB CA | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Copyright infringement - good luck fighting that one . . .
Someone blowing steam.
Plus - what Possum said. Remove buy such and such date OR face fine . . . Legal BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Remove the video and tell him to stick it where the sun don't shine - uhm leagally!
-------------------- My Cars: 2000 Bright Rally Red Camaro SS Convertible 2002 Electron Metallic Blue Berger SS T-Top 2004 Silver Birch Metallic Silverado 2500HD Duramax Ext. Cab. S.B. 4x4
posted
I like the P.S./....................Pure Sh**
-------------------- SLP#3579 LE#1533 A pair of 35th Anny drinking chairs. Every thing else is just "Fluff" Rio Grande "Swim" Coach Posts: 3091 | From: Canton Mi. | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
Looks like the club webmaster took it down from the club website. Funny how when I asked a few questions to this Mopar guy I work with,he just laughed like it was a joke.It was just a link to the video that the Mopar guy sent me in an e-mail originally.I guess he won't be invited to our club events any longer.
Posts: 5682 | From: Dearborn,Mi. | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
sounds like EMCC can counter-sue as E-Video Productions did not request in writing it's permission to be filmed..
sue for $10,000 + legal fees as he initially did not request your permission, and he filmed the EMCC... it looks like he made the initial mistake..
why is this guy so pissed? Is his girlfriend THE E-video company? How did this video company intially become involved? If an individual took the video and not this compay, how is this company they involved? It sounds like a hostile ownership takeover and they want the video rights!!! ... all in all please explain what got E-video involved with EMCC in the first place.. it might explain why they are suing
either way it sounds like a case of greed for $$. E-video saw the downlad popularity and thus the $$$ potential and .. when you want $$$ ... sue someone.. it's the american way If this video wasn't popular or have $$$ -making potential I see any reason for them to sue ??
[ 10. November 2003, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Rhode Island Red ]
Posts: 694 | From: Newport, RI (Middletown Technically) | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Rhode Island Red: sounds like EMCC can counter-sue as E-Video Productions did not request in writing it's permission to be filmed..
sue for $10,000 + legal fees as he initially did not request your permission, and he filmed the EMCC... it looks like he made the initial mistake..
why is this guy so pissed? Is his girlfriend THE E-video company? How did this video company intially become involved? If an individual took the video and not this compay, how is this company they involved? It sounds like a hostile ownership takeover and they want the video rights!!! ... all in all please explain what got E-video involved with EMCC in the first place.. it might explain why they are suing
either way it sounds like a case of greed for $$. E-video saw the downlad popularity and thus the $$$ potential and .. when you want $$$ ... sue someone.. it's the american way If this video wasn't popular or have $$$ -making potential I see any reason for them to sue ??
I wished I could answer your questions,but in one of the e-mails that was sent to all of us club officers,the guy mentioned my name. Whoever this guy is I wished he would get out from under his rock and give me a e-mail or phone call.
-------------------- Current ride is: 2002 Brickyard 400 35th Anniversary LE convertible #22,SLP build# 0036,35th Anniversary Build #47 EMCC Member #234 www.emcamaro.org WCA Member #197582 MMCC Member #28 NEOCC Member #634 Posts: 5682 | From: Dearborn,Mi. | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Greg 1st off where did the 500 dollars come in and second I would get word to him or them that they did not have permission to vidio at the event for one thing and the second thing is you did not sign a waver to have your race filmed or vidio and if you see the vidio used by them of you and your car you will sue.
-------------------- Willard (Mike) Scott Worldwide Camaro Club North Carolina state Rep. 2001 SS convertible with all SLP opts. Sunset Orange Neutral top Neutral leather http://community.webshots.com/user/wmss Posts: 737 | From: Siler City N.C. | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
That sucks to go through all the legal hassles. As a moderator at another web board, we had a similar situation, although it involved still photographs. It was a dispute between two of the members. We got professional legal advice about it, but laws may vary from state to state as to details, but here's some general ideas.
There could be some issues with copyrights depending on the capacity the video was made. If you or your car are filmed in public, or if pictures were not prohibited from being taken by a legal entrant, no permission is needed and you really can't do much about that. If you are being featured in a commercial offering with names used, etc., things could get different. One thing that doesn't change. The person who takes legal pictures owns the copyright to the images. No copyright has to be explicitly stated for the image. All the owner has to do is prove they really do own or concieved the images, which usually isn't much. So it would appear there's more to this, perhaps. I'd make sure my bases are covered.
Anyway, the burden of proof seems to be on this E-video production that they do indeed own the copyrights and were legal in videotaping the event. My question would be how did your club get the video? If they gave you a copy for use on the club webpage, you should be ok. If the copyright owner did not give permission, then your club could be found in violation of a copyright infringement. It's really only an issue if the copyright owner complains.
Depending on the use, most of the time, companies don't care about Joe Average using a copyright (such as a bowtie image taken from the GM website) unless someone is trying to capitalize on the illegal use of the image or try to cause that company adverse economic effects while using the material (such as knock-off genuine GM parts boxes, or Napster free file sharing).
For instance, using a GM factory promo-photo on a personal website featuring your favorite car doesn't normally get a nasty letter from GM, although you are technically violating the copyright. In fact, I've had people e-mail me saying that GM sent them to my website for specific vehicle information!! And I use GM photos on my sites. But pictures of my own cars are mine if I took them, so I own the copyright to those photos. If someone else took a picture of my car, they'd own the copyrights to that photo. Kinda complicated, isn't it? Good luck with this.
-------------------- Mike '02 #6906 pewter/M6/leather/hardtop Posts: 577 | From: Aiken, SC | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by el ess1: That sucks to go through all the legal hassles. As a moderator at another web board, we had a similar situation, although it involved still photographs. It was a dispute between two of the members. We got professional legal advice about it, but laws may vary from state to state as to details, but here's some general ideas.
There could be some issues with copyrights depending on the capacity the video was made. If you or your car are filmed in public, or if pictures were not prohibited from being taken by a legal entrant, no permission is needed and you really can't do much about that. If you are being featured in a commercial offering with names used, etc., things could get different. One thing that doesn't change. The person who takes legal pictures owns the copyright to the images. No copyright has to be explicitly stated for the image. All the owner has to do is prove they really do own or concieved the images, which usually isn't much. So it would appear there's more to this, perhaps. I'd make sure my bases are covered.
Anyway, the burden of proof seems to be on this E-video production that they do indeed own the copyrights and were legal in videotaping the event. My question would be how did your club get the video? If they gave you a copy for use on the club webpage, you should be ok. If the copyright owner did not give permission, then your club could be found in violation of a copyright infringement. It's really only an issue if the copyright owner complains.
Depending on the use, most of the time, companies don't care about Joe Average using a copyright (such as a bowtie image taken from the GM website) unless someone is trying to capitalize on the illegal use of the image or try to cause that company adverse economic effects while using the material (such as knock-off genuine GM parts boxes, or Napster free file sharing).
For instance, using a GM factory promo-photo on a personal website featuring your favorite car doesn't normally get a nasty letter from GM, although you are technically violating the copyright. In fact, I've had people e-mail me saying that GM sent them to my website for specific vehicle information!! And I use GM photos on my sites. But pictures of my own cars are mine if I took them, so I own the copyright to those photos. If someone else took a picture of my car, they'd own the copyrights to that photo. Kinda complicated, isn't it? Good luck with this.
1st off the $500 was for a lawyer that our club webmaster obtained over the weekend.The great news is that he will not be charging the club or any of its members that fee.He will after the person who owns the web site for the money.
The guy I was racing with his highly build Mopar works with me.His girlfriend made that poor video and still to this day even though I was barely beat(off the line 60'and the distance he had on me never got greater to the finish line),this guy said he was running on 7 cylinders,was hard on the brakes saying he was just keeping me on his back bumper.Funny when I watched the video,my brake lights came on first after the finish line.He then said that his brake light bulbs fell out of the bulb sockets and were laying in the trunk.Yeah whatever! You see what kind of person he is? Even though he beat my car he still had several excuses.I told him that other than his better 60',his 1/8 mile,1000' and trap times were almost identical to mine and his Mopar was running out of breath on the big end.My car was still pulling at the big end.
-------------------- Current ride is: 2002 Brickyard 400 35th Anniversary LE convertible #22,SLP build# 0036,35th Anniversary Build #47 EMCC Member #234 www.emcamaro.org WCA Member #197582 MMCC Member #28 NEOCC Member #634 Posts: 5682 | From: Dearborn,Mi. | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
If I understand this whole thing... You basically raced a guy in a Mopar at one of YOUR club events, ...and his girlfriend video taped it. You got a copy of the video and hosted it on your club site, ...or something like that. Even though the guy doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on (ie. you never gave permission to be video taped, never signed anything, etc.) You're best off taking the video down, ...just to avoid the BS, ...It's not worth playing legal games. As I'm sure you know, if someone takes your picture, a picture of your car, etc., they need to have written/signed approval/agreement with you prior to doing it(ie. I went through this with Chevrolet with my cars on the tours). Who is this "E-video" company? "IF" (and this would be a huge leap here) they were legit, do you really think they would send a letter like what you posted? That is so unprofessional it's not funny. Does a legit' comany go around filming people and posting it on the web? ...No. THis guy is just playing games. It seems obvious that he's pissed off, ...this is his way of trying to beat you, one up you, ...whatever, ...he's a sore loser... I'd take the video down, ...and make sure you FORMALLY let them (whoever they are) know that you did (ie. registered mail). Even though it doesn't seem to me he has any legal course to take against you, ...just take it down. OH, ...by the way, ...the fine print on your club events, ..."...any video taken during the course of this event to be considered the property of EMCC...", ...don't agree? ...don't come.
...there are A__holes out there Greg, ...I guess you found a big one... Best of luck getting this thing taken care of...
Kevin
-------------------- Kevin Kolvenbach, 2002 Sunset Orange SS (#3455), Convertible, Black top, Ebony leather, Bilstein, ASR, 6SP w/Hurst, 345HP Dual-Dual Posts: 1046 | From: Pine Bush, NY USA | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by RagSS: You're best off taking the video down, ...just to avoid the BS, ...It's not worth playing legal games. As I'm sure you know, if someone takes your picture, a picture of your car, etc., they need to have written/signed approval/agreement with you prior to doing it(ie. I went through this with Chevrolet with my cars on the tours).
Again, having gone through this, permission is only needed in certain circumstances, such as if there is commercial considerations. In other words, Chevy got you to sign a release form, because now they can use YOUR car or likeness to promote their product commercially in ads or other literature as they see fit and not have to pay you any more money. The only real difference then between you and a paid actor is that you didn't get paid. Joey Red probably knows a lot about the commercial end of release forms, I'm sure. (Didn't Tim Lane go through a similar issue with a commercial website using a picture of his truck without permission before?) There's specifics about what constitutes fair use, so it's best to contact a lawyer for questions.
Fourth amendment rights to privacy are normally reserved for inside the home, or other places where privacy would be normally expected. I'd bet a court would classify a drag race at a dragstrip as being a public place.
Generally, if I take a picture of YOU or YOUR car at an event I'm attending, I don't need your permission to use it for my personal use. If that weren't the case, paparazzi in Hollywood would be simple to stop. (Local laws will need to be checked, as that can differ.) Otherwise, there's a lot of forms that still need to be filled out just to cover the Bowling Green event. Not a single person here came up to me and asked me to sign a release form, yet I've seen pics of me and my car posted on various web pages. The intent of use for the image is usually what drives whether the release form is needed.
I'm not saying who's right or who's wrong in Greg's case, but it is not a simple slam-dunk situation depending on local laws. Consulting a lawyer is ALWAYS a great idea to cover your assets...
Posts: 577 | From: Aiken, SC | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by RagSS: If I understand this whole thing... You basically raced a guy in a Mopar at one of YOUR club events, ...and his girlfriend video taped it. You got a copy of the video and hosted it on your club site, ...or something like that. Even though the guy doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on (ie. you never gave permission to be video taped, never signed anything, etc.) You're best off taking the video down, ...just to avoid the BS, ...It's not worth playing legal games. As I'm sure you know, if someone takes your picture, a picture of your car, etc., they need to have written/signed approval/agreement with you prior to doing it(ie. I went through this with Chevrolet with my cars on the tours). Who is this "E-video" company? "IF" (and this would be a huge leap here) they were legit, do you really think they would send a letter like what you posted? That is so unprofessional it's not funny. Does a legit' comany go around filming people and posting it on the web? ...No. THis guy is just playing games. It seems obvious that he's pissed off, ...this is his way of trying to beat you, one up you, ...whatever, ...he's a sore loser... I'd take the video down, ...and make sure you FORMALLY let them (whoever they are) know that you did (ie. registered mail). Even though it doesn't seem to me he has any legal course to take against you, ...just take it down. OH, ...by the way, ...the fine print on your club events, ..."...any video taken during the course of this event to be considered the property of EMCC...", ...don't agree? ...don't come.
...there are A__holes out there Greg, ...I guess you found a big one... Best of luck getting this thing taken care of...
Kevin
Kevin,you understand it perfectly! From now on this Mopar Boy is not allowed at our events.We can turn away anyone we want to according to the track.We had to turn away a bunch of Harley bikers that came to the track armed with alcohol.Normally we don't allow bikes to run at the events but have let a few of the real good bike people race.Yesterday that link to that video was taken off the club web site.Just the link to the video,not the video was hosted.The guy who owned the video web site contacted our club webmaster and applogized. I guess the call from the webmasters lawyer scared him.All is better now!
-------------------- Current ride is: 2002 Brickyard 400 35th Anniversary LE convertible #22,SLP build# 0036,35th Anniversary Build #47 EMCC Member #234 www.emcamaro.org WCA Member #197582 MMCC Member #28 NEOCC Member #634 Posts: 5682 | From: Dearborn,Mi. | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Cool! Glad things worked out for the better.
-------------------- Mike '02 #6906 pewter/M6/leather/hardtop Posts: 577 | From: Aiken, SC | Registered: May 2002
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Fbodfather
They don't make songs about Volvos.
Member # 1119
posted
Naturally, it is probably wise to consult an attorney. With that said, the guy sounds like a fool...esp. with the way the letter is written.
I can tell you this: I would send him a registered letter demanding either 1) immediate destruction of the tape...and proof of it that contains any and all images of you OR your car....and/or 2) immediate payment for the use of the images of you and/or your car.
I would definitely remove the video from your site....but this guy is out of line from the perspective that he feels it's OK to use you and your car, but not allowing you to use his video.
Just goes to show you that there are ALL TYPES in this world of ours.
-------------------- Posts: 749 | From: Detroit | Registered: Aug 2001
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What legal action can the club take?
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If this video wasn't popular or have $$$ -making potential I see any reason for them to sue ??
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