Well I wanted to update everyone on the header and GMMG install now that I’ve had a chance to drive it a bit. I have put this write up together to help anyone trying to decide what systems to buy, or whether to get them at all.
Initially I was very concerned that the combination of the headers and high flow cats with the GMMG was too loud – I got a little drone (not much at all) around 70 in 6th and when I get on it, it’s pretty loud – but I took off the megs tips and put the standard tips on and it seems much better. It’s definitely not as loud and there is no drone.
I had gotten the Megs tips originally because I wanted the rolled edge oval slash cut tips and the standard GMMG tips were just simple slash cut. I also thought an oval tip would compliment the shape of the rear of the car. I’m not a big fan of dual outlets (the other option), they are fine but just seem out of place on the SS. As it turns out though, the megaphone shape of the Megs seem to make it quite a bit louder and they are just a bit too big for my taste
The car also has more vapor (steam) from the tailpipes than it used to. I’m theorizing that the different cats and less restrictive system don’t heat the air as much and thus the extra steam. Apparently this is not uncommon.
My mileage seems to have decreased although I have not been gentle with my new found power. I’ll start checking next tankful.
The ground clearance with the TTS headers, cats and Y are excellent. The lowest point is the clamp between the cat and the y pipe, and I estimate that it is only about ¾ inch lower than the original y.
After having all the work done, aside from the extra power which I am really enjoying, I had some serious regrets, like geez, I had a perfectly good car that I was enjoying, and now I have all kinds of concerns – too loud, how did it affect my mileage, steam, do the tips look right, etc., etc.
I have had a chance to drive it a bit and I’m getting happier and happier with each drive. The power is absolutely great. I got on it a bit last night and when I power shifted into second it went sideways! It also revs so fast now that I have to really pay attention to shift points. Now, I normally drive her very gently so this was just a bit of playing with the new toys.
In conclusion, I think all headers and exhaust systems are a compromise. There are good and bad with all of them, you just have to pick which you are willing to live with. The GMMG is a bit too loud but if I have to compromise I’m going to lean toward louder with a nice deep muscle car tone and a system that is good enough for the Berger fleet. The TTS are really nice for ground clearance and no banging, and I like the thick flange for extra security against leaks. That plus fewer welds and joints in the assembly, and with a shorter collector, there’s more room for the cats and the 02 sensors are closer to the engine for better protection against throwing codes.
[ 07. February 2003, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: DaddySS ]
Posted by MaryandRalph (Member # 244) on :
Richard, Nice job! can't wait to hear it! Now you've got me thinking!! Posted by Joey Red (Member # 550) on :
Ooooo baby! I bet she screams now!! Good Job! Posted by Elie Garfinkel (Member # 1635) on :
quote:Originally posted by DaddySS: Headers and GMMG progress report.
It also revs so fast now that I have to really pay attention to shift points. Now, I normally drive her very gently so this was just a bit of playing with the new toys.
Ummm... I'm guessing your next project could be a shiftlight then? Congratulation on your newfound power. Enjoy and drive safely!
Best regardSS,
Elie
Posted by 35th6spd (Member # 1243) on :
Hey DaddySS that system looks great, probably sounds even better.....I'm thinking of going with the GMMG with random high flows and stock exhaust manifolds....do you have any sound clips you could post? Thanks for sharing!
Posted by Hawkeye (Member # 88) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elie Garfinkel:
quote:Originally posted by DaddySS: Headers and GMMG progress report.
It also revs so fast now that I have to really pay attention to shift points. Now, I normally drive her very gently so this was just a bit of playing with the new toys.
Ummm... I'm guessing your next project could be a shiftlight then? Congratulation on your newfound power. Enjoy and drive safely!
Best regardSS,
Elie
Looks (sounds) great - if you're going sideways I'd say time for some grippier tires! Posted by JohnS (Member # 1073) on :
Thanks for the update and pics, Rich.
Posted by DaddySS (Member # 848) on :
Thanks for the feedback all, sorry the post is so long.
Elie: Thanks for the thought, but I usually drive like an old lady (appologies to all old ladies). Now of course this may change due to the mods in which case I'll take you up on the suggestion!
35th6spd: One of the sites has video, I'll try to track that down - you can also get a good idea from the gmmg site, there are two or three videos on there.
Hawkeye: Not to worry, if you remember I still have the TTIIs (11s for rear!) and KDs, to install, I haven't gotten to painting them yet, but they should be on in a few weeks. I also have the BMR LCAs to install yet.
Posted by sscamaro (Member # 1330) on :
Hi Rich,
You need a Pan Hard bar,SFC and New torq arm yet. I found that with all the chassis stuff on mine,it plants itself on the road better.
Posted by DaddySS (Member # 848) on :
quote:Originally posted by sscamaro: Hi Rich,
You need a Pan Hard bar,SFC and New torq arm yet. I found that with all the chassis stuff on mine,it plants itself on the road better.
Ralph, I was told you don't ned a torque arm until you get into the higher HP, Drag radials etc. range...any opinions?
For the SFCs, I've been meaning to do them for a while...any update on Steve's?
Posted by Elie Garfinkel (Member # 1635) on :
quote:Originally posted by DaddySS: [QUOTE]Originally posted by sscamaro: [qb] For the SFCs, I've been meaning to do them for a while...any update on Steve's?
FWIW, I put mine on about a week ago (SLP Bolt-On)and it couldn't have gone smoother! All the holes lined up perfectly and it was a piece of cake to trim the heat shield and push the fuel lines out of the way. I haven't been able to wring 'er out yet cause there'sabsoutely no traction in this cold weather, but I can sure feel the difference up and down driveway bumpers! The car definitelt has a more solid feel to it andyou can tell it's not flexing as much over bumps, which tends to give it a slightly harsher ride - Small price to pay IMHO!
Best regardSS,
Elie
Posted by DaddySS (Member # 848) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elie Garfinkel:
quote:Originally posted by DaddySS: [QUOTE]Originally posted by sscamaro: [qb] For the SFCs, I've been meaning to do them for a while...any update on Steve's?
FWIW, I put mine on about a week ago (SLP Bolt-On)and it couldn't have gone smoother! All the holes lined up perfectly and it was a piece of cake to trim the heat shield and push the fuel lines out of the way. I haven't been able to wring 'er out yet cause there'sabsoutely no traction in this cold weather, but I can sure feel the difference up and down driveway bumpers! The car definitelt has a more solid feel to it andyou can tell it's not flexing as much over bumps, which tends to give it a slightly harsher ride - Small price to pay IMHO!
Best regardSS,
Elie
Thanks for the info Elie. I wish I get bolt ons for the vert, I just don't like the idea of all the welding to put the BMRs on.
Posted by Elie Garfinkel (Member # 1635) on :
[/qb][/QUOTE]Thanks for the info Elie. I wish I get bolt ons for the vert, I just don't like the idea of all the welding to put the BMRs on. [/QB][/QUOTE]
I did a lot of research and drove myself crazy trying to figure out whether to go with weld-ons or bolt-ons. I'm glad the bolt-ons seem to be working for me but I really think the bottom line is that once they're in, they're in - and you forget about what you went thru leading up to the decision! ('cuz the result is so good!) Everybody has their own priorities and their own reasons for preferring one over the other. The fact of the matter is that after all is said and done, SFCs are a no-brainer mod - whichever ever way you go. I've never heard of anybody regretting installing SFCs - bolted or welded. I had a very interesting conversation with Hawkeye on this exact topic a little while back and if I'm not mistaken, he's got the bolt-ins that have been welded on as well! ...and his reasoning for doing this makes perfect sense! "Jus' do eet, mon - eet feels sooo good, you know!" (Why is it that you 'vert guys always have to complicate matters! )
Best regardSS,
Elie
Posted by DaddySS (Member # 848) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elie Garfinkel: on. [/QB]
(Why is it that you 'vert guys always have to complicate matters! )
Best regardSS,
Elie [/QB][/QUOTE]
It's not the permanence that bothers me, but on the BMRs for instance, there are six plates that have to be welded to the floor pan. If I new of someone who would do a top notch job, clean up the welded area, repaint the floor around them to the original factory color and then repaint the powder coated braces to match - I'd do it. In reality, I have this vision of sloppy welds, burned carpet in the interior, and a patchwork paint touch up job. Posted by Elie Garfinkel (Member # 1635) on :
[/QB][/QUOTE]
It's not the permanence that bothers me, but on the BMRs for instance, there are six plates that have to be welded to the floor pan. If I new of someone who would do a top notch job, clean up the welded area, repaint the floor around them to the original factory color and then repaint the powder coated braces to match - I'd do it. In reality, I have this vision of sloppy welds, burned carpet in the interior, and a patchwork paint touch up job. [/QB][/QUOTE]
I can sure understand the concerns that you have. I think you've gotta be able to have a reasonable degree of faith in the shop that you choose and sound them out about you hangin' around and watching while the work is being done, if this is at all feasible for you to do. I know that if I wasn't around to "oversee" this work on my car, I'd be a nervous wreck! Maybe just make up your mind to hold off until you are 100% confident that the guys who are gonna do the job are understanding of your requirements and are prepared to meet them. Go get all the paint etc. and whatever else you need to do the job right. You need to tell them what has to be done! My guess is that if they're a good shop, they'll be more than happy to work with you, if they don't know already how to do it themselves! Hey, you're only making it easier for them! Good luck!
Best regardSS,
Elie
Posted by DaddySS (Member # 848) on :
Well, I'll worry about that when the time comes. For now I'm enjoying the headers and GMMG, and waiting for nicer weather while I get the wheels painted (that's going to be a challenge)and tires mounted.
Posted by Elie Garfinkel (Member # 1635) on :
quote:Originally posted by DaddySS: Well, I'll worry about that when the time comes. For now I'm enjoying the headers and GMMG, and waiting for nicer weather while I get the wheels painted (that's going to be a challenge)and tires mounted.
Everything in its time! Every time I add a new mod, it feels like I just bought a new car! I like to savour each mod - one at a time. While I'm savouring the last one, I start to think about what I'm going to wanna do next!! Then, I do it when I'm ready to, or it's convenient! I try to never rush into doing a mod! Enjoy!
Best regardSS,
Elie
[ 08. February 2003, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: Elie Garfinkel ]
Posted by DaddySS (Member # 848) on :
Any opinions on the megs tips, did you all think they were ricey, too big, looked good? (aside from the fact that the left side was crooked).
Posted by Hawkeye (Member # 88) on :
Not ricey at all. Looks good to me.
As for the SFCs a must for these cars. That is one mod that you can really feel at any speed. The car is much tighter and it really helps the cornering ability.
Posted by sscamaro (Member # 1330) on :
DaddySS,
I did notice a difference with traction after the Torq arm was installed. Send Steve Spohn an e-mail.Tell him I sent you and you have a 4th gen convertable for SFC. You won't be able to beat the price. sales@spohn.net
Posted by Bello SS (Member # 1304) on :
Congrats on the power......hope I catch you on the street. Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
quote:Originally posted by DaddySS: [QB] Headers and GMMG progress report.
I got a little drone (not much at all) around 70 in 6th and when I get on it, it’s pretty loud – but I took off the megs tips and put the standard tips on and it seems much better. It’s definitely not as loud and there is no drone.
not a big fan of dual outlets (the other option), they are fine but just seem out of place on the SS.
I have the SLP LM that I put on at the end of the summer and have the drone also.I had several discs machined to put in to try and ger rid if it(car's on jacks now).... You mentioned that you put the standard tips on, were they smaller in diameter that made some of the drone go away?.... I'm hoping so as I think that this will help me also.Basically the same princapal as the Borla.
Agree with you on the single tips don't care for the duals Posted by DaddySS (Member # 848) on :
Hawkeye: Thanks...I'm not done looking for the right tips, I like the idea of oval slash cut with rolled tips - about 3 1/2 by 2 1/2 between 9 and 11" long...if anyone comes across any. (the Megs are 4 1/2 by 3 1/2)
Gino: I look forward to seeing you soon
35th Ed: Yes, the standard are 3" round slashcut, straight tube shape. The Megs are larger and cone shaped. I'm also checking into resonator tips that I can swap on and off.
Posted by 35th6spd (Member # 1243) on :
First of all, no way those Megs tips are rice...if your car sounded like a weed whacker, maybe.. .. SFC's - I dont have em yet, but I see no reason why bolt ons with grade 8 bolts torqued to spec should prove less effective than weld ins...after all, the factory bolts the front and rear frame sections on to the unit body, they dont weld it Just my $.02 (American)
Posted by RagSS (Member # 1127) on :
QUOTE["I like the idea of oval slash cut with rolled tips - about 3 1/2 by 2 1/2 between 9 and 11" long...if anyone comes across any..."}QUOTE
Rich, ...Late 60's Chevelle's (ie. '69) had tips like this, but not sure if they were rolled tips. Worth looking into... I find it very interesting reading your posts, because I'm realizing our tastes are very similar. This whole SFC topic is one I looked into in the past, but I could not come to grips with someone welding 'anything' to the car. Visualizations of 'ugly' welds; burnt paint(or worse), etc. put the whole thing on hold. I understand everyones claims that once there on, there on., so you might as well weld them. But (as another post mentioned) most (all?) of the other suspension components are bolted from the factory anyway.
Ralph, ...are you saying that Spohn makes a bolt on SFC for verts?? (I had talked to them in the past and I don't think they did.) Is there a bolt on SFC (for verts) out there?
...and Rich, ...THANKS for sharing your mod experiences, they are helpful for the rest of us making our decisions.
Posted by sscamaro (Member # 1330) on :
The 60's Chevelle did have oval tips,but they weren't rolled.
Kev, Spohn does not have bolt on SFC for any cars. His are all weld-on. He does not have ones for the conv yet. He will have them shortly. If you look at the pictures of mine welded on,you can not see any welds and look like a part of the car.
quote:Originally posted by RagSS: QUOTE["I like the idea of oval slash cut with rolled tips - about 3 1/2 by 2 1/2 between 9 and 11" long...if anyone comes across any..."}QUOTE
Rich, ...Late 60's Chevelle's (ie. '69) had tips like this, but not sure if they were rolled tips. Worth looking into... I find it very interesting reading your posts, because I'm realizing our tastes are very similar. This whole SFC topic is one I looked into in the past, but I could not come to grips with someone welding 'anything' to the car. Visualizations of 'ugly' welds; burnt paint(or worse), etc. put the whole thing on hold. I understand everyones claims that once there on, there on., so you might as well weld them. But (as another post mentioned) most (all?) of the other suspension components are bolted from the factory anyway.
Ralph, ...are you saying that Spohn makes a bolt on SFC for verts?? (I had talked to them in the past and I don't think they did.) Is there a bolt on SFC (for verts) out there?
...and Rich, ...THANKS for sharing your mod experiences, they are helpful for the rest of us making our decisions.
Yes, I am looking into the Chevelle tips, they're more of a flat oval nad not rolled edge but worth a good look.
I am working getting a set of bolt on SFCs, I'll know more in a week or so.
I'm glad the posts are helpful, I always worry that I am annoying people with my "dissertations" but I learn a great deal with each project and hope that others can share and benefit from the experience, even if they disagree with the approach or conclusion.
Posted by DanA_F99_1977 (Member # 118) on :
Not at all annoying. In fact, it is this type of useful information and the lack of the rest of the garbage that keeps me on this board. It is refreshing. Thanks for the info. Great thread!
How do you say .....
Danke
Posted by JohnS (Member # 1073) on :
quote:Originally posted by DaddySS: I always worry that I am annoying people with my "dissertations" but I learn a great deal with each project and hope that others can share and benefit from the experience, even if they disagree with the approach or conclusion.
I think this is part of the fun of belonging to the forum. We might not always agree on the mod's, but we all learn from each other's experiences. I hope you and all the other members keep those "dissertations" coming. Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
quote:Originally posted by DaddySS: Hawkeye: Thanks...I'm not done looking for the right tips, I like the idea of oval slash cut with rolled tips - about 3 1/2 by 2 1/2 between 9 and 11" long...if anyone comes across any. (the Megs are 4 1/2 by 3 1/2)
Gino: I look forward to seeing you soon
35th Ed: Yes, the standard are 3" round slashcut, straight tube shape. The Megs are larger and cone shaped. I'm also checking into resonator tips that I can swap on and off.
The SLP LM tips are the dimentions that you are looking for excpt they are not rolled.I purchased several extra tips and incerted a disc in each to try and deaden the drone, will be able to tell you if it works in 60 days Just got a new digital and will try to get pics on the web so you can see what I did will let you know when I've got them on.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
('cuz the result is so good!)![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Then, I do it when I'm ready to, or it's convenient! I try to never rush into doing a mod!