Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6 A.M. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA) he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO) to see how much he c ould spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY) and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB. At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day, Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL) poured himse lf a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE) and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't ! find a good paying job in..... THE USA
Posted by DaddySS (Member # 848) on :
Posted by ss_rs_z (Member # 1888) on :
Its a shame that all the good jobs are going overseas and there won't be anything here anymore if this rate keeps going.
Posted by MaryandRalph (Member # 244) on :
How true,
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
The sad truth is that the standard of living in MOST of those other countries is still lower than the USA. That is very bad for us because it means their labor rates are going to remain much lower for a long long time. Right now in a WORLD ECONOMY, Americans will always be hurt while all those competing countries with lower labor rates help out good old Corporate America to lower their costs. This is just a fact of life and no amount of legislation or bantering is going to change it. Things are going to get a lot tougher too as time goes on because countries like China which has the largest population in the world are just starting to join the ranks of capitalism.
Posted by MM (Member # 1247) on :
Exactly... thats why lately I have been on a made in USA kick. I look for products that are made here. Yeah I might pay a little more but if we ship all the jobs overseas who will buy the products from the company that I work for....? This bumper sticker is going on the back of my AMERICAN MADE vehicle....
BY AMERICAN Posted by ss_rs_z (Member # 1888) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS_CarGuy: The sad truth is that the standard of living in MOST of those other countries is still lower than the USA. That is very bad for us because it means their labor rates are going to remain much lower for a long long time. Right now in a WORLD ECONOMY, Americans will always be hurt while all those competing countries with lower labor rates help out good old Corporate America to lower their costs. This is just a fact of life and no amount of legislation or bantering is going to change it. Things are going to get a lot tougher too as time goes on because countries like China which has the largest population in the world are just starting to join the ranks of capitalism.
It may lower their costs but they still keep the prices right where they are to fatten their wallets while regular people have to struggle and the Middle Class continues to shrink. Once again there will only be two - The Upper Class and the Lower Class and the Upper Class will cry that their stuff isn't being bought. BOO HOO I feel for them - NOT.
If they would spend the money here instead of overseas maybe we could keep the jobs here but unfortunately the RICH always endure to keep thier greed. Posted by Mark IXZD 150 (Member # 235) on :
I was just thinking about this the other day when I was watching the news...
Wouldn't it be cool to start a chain of stores (much like Wal-Mart) that only carried goods made in the United States? I'm sure it could be done and would be hugely popular. The store could be named 'Made in the USA'
Posted by DanPazich (Member # 1352) on :
Well, if you had a store with nothing but stuff made int he USA, chances are, most of that stuff will be more expensive than that of Walmart. That's one reason why all the Mom and Pop sotres are going out of business..people are going to buy, as a whole, products that are cheaper (in general. It also depends on teh trade-off with quality as well. Studied this waaay too much in my economics classes. Supply and demand.
ON another similar note, In my one Business and Society Class we were talking about outsourcing and how the new trend is for companies with customer serice outsource to the Philappines where it is much cheaper and everyone over there speaks prefect English. PLUS, when it's noon here, it's midnight over there.
It aint gonna get better. Posted by Steven2000SS (Member # 780) on :
You forgot..
"then he jumps in his Camaro (Made in Canada) and goes for a drive to the unemployement office.."
Posted by el ess1 (Member # 1544) on :
quote:Originally posted by Steven2000SS: "then he jumps in his Camaro (Made in Canada) and goes for a drive to the unemployement office.."
Technically, the Camaro was still "made in America." I suppose if it were made in Chile, it still would retain "American" status. Although some idealogues may try to argue this pointless point ad nauseum, that doesn't really matter.
Unfortunately, the cut-throat economies are forcing U.S. companies to move overseas, because there are too many "Wal-Mart-shoppin', too-dumb-to-realize-their-a-part-of-the-economic-downturn-problem, cheapskates" who want to save two cents and they don't care how.
Face it, most people are looking to save money, which I'm not against, because after all, who wouldn't want to save a few bucks? However, they don't bother to look past the politics behind the cost undercuts by third-world countries. As long as this happens, Clem, and Clem's son (South Carolina joke) will be able to buy their Malaysian-made camoflauge hunting gear super-cheap at stores such as Wal-mart, but at the same time, won't understand why their getting laid off at the textile mill.
Posted by Steven2000SS (Member # 780) on :
quote:Originally posted by el ess1:
quote:Originally posted by Steven2000SS: "then he jumps in his Camaro (Made in Canada) and goes for a drive to the unemployement office.."
Technically, the Camaro was still "made in America." I suppose if it were made in Chile, it still would retain "American" status.
Sort of how a Honda Accord assembled in Kentucky by american workers is still considered an import? So would cryslers be considered imports now that they are owned by Daimler?
Gets sorta confusing huh?
I try to buy american but its tough.. good luck finding an american made TV (or most any other electronics).. I at least try to find "american friendly" forgine products when I can..
Posted by MM (Member # 1247) on :
quote:Originally posted by Steven2000SS: You forgot..
"then he jumps in his Camaro (Made in Canada) and goes for a drive to the unemployement office.."
I consider things made in North America as american made.... sort of... Posted by MM (Member # 1247) on :
quote: Sort of how a Honda Accord assembled in Kentucky by american workers is still considered an import?
It may be "american made" but maybe a better term would be american assembled... probably over 80% of the vehicle content comes from the home island (engine, trans etc)... plus the profits go back there... and they engineer it there and their government artifically inflates the yen... I could go on and on....
Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
While the Camaro/Firebird were assembled in Canada, I suspect that the American made content was stll high enough that it was classified as an American made cars.
An interesting example of the "gamesmanship" played by American car manufacturers was the Ford Crown Victoria. Most would swear it was American made because it was assembled in the US and was an American icon. In fact it was classified as an import. Ford ensured that enough of the parts were sourced outside the US (I think it was some thing like 60%) so that it was classified as an import.
Why....becasue of CAFE. The Crown Vic was a gas guzzzler and Ford did not have enough of a fuel economy margin on its domestic fleet to absorb the terrible fuel economy of the Crown Vic to avoid paying a gas guzzler penalty on its domestic fleet sales. However, there was a cushion on the import fleet...so it became an import and no gas guzzler tax.
Posted by ss_rs_z (Member # 1888) on :
quote:Originally posted by MM:
quote: Sort of how a Honda Accord assembled in Kentucky by american workers is still considered an import?
It may be "american made" but maybe a better term would be american assembled... probably over 80% of the vehicle content comes from the home island (engine, trans etc)... plus the profits go back there... and they engineer it there and their government artifically inflates the yen... I could go on and on....
Exactly MM. 80% content of these Japanese or whatever vehicles are imported from overseas so technically they are still "imports".
And as far as the Camaro being made in Canada, they were previously made in in Ohio and Califonia before moving to Ste. Therese. Being part Canadian myself I feel Canadians and Americans are the same. I am French Canadian myself.
[ 09. November 2003, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: ss_rs_z ]
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
I thouht I would chime in again to remind everyone this is a WORLD ECONOMY we live in. So you can try to buy Made-in-the-USA products, but the inequities will still exist in the labor market anyway and that will not change for a long long time.
And AMERICAN products are not necessarily "American". For example, every American car that is made today has foreign content. It might be certain compents, it might be where the car is assembled, or partner agreements with "foreign" manufacturers, etc. The same thing is true of many other products we use. Take your television.....I don't think there are any TV's made in America anymore. Some may still have American names, but it's a good bet they are made in Mexico or the far east.
And don't forget too we live in a competitive society so even if an American Company would like to make their products in America, if the competition is offering an eqivalent product at a lower price, sometimes these companies have no choice but to go offshore with their jobs if that's what all the competition does too.
I don't like this situation at all. I would prefer that none of this was reality. But it is. So buy American....but be aware that you may still be "fooled" from time to time.
Posted by Steven2000SS (Member # 780) on :
quote:Originally posted by MM:
quote: Sort of how a Honda Accord assembled in Kentucky by american workers is still considered an import?
It may be "american made" but maybe a better term would be american assembled... probably over 80% of the vehicle content comes from the home island (engine, trans etc)... plus the profits go back there... and they engineer it there and their government artifically inflates the yen... I could go on and on....
Well my point is that more AMERICANS are employed building Honda Accords than were employed building f-bodies.. sorta ironic?
And since Ford owns Jaguar then is it still a forgin car? (it is an import) after all the profits go to an american company..
and what about my comment on Chrysler? This new "world economy" cant get confusing
import car companies employ hundreds of thousands of employees here in the states.. about the only problem I have with imports is the unfair restrictions their countries put on us IMPORTING our cars to their countries (ie, Japan).. very unfair....
Posted by Steven2000SS (Member # 780) on :
Oh, and yes, NO TV's are made in the USA.. there are a couple of plants that make the CRT tube portion but those tube are shipped out of country for assembly.
Find a USA made DVD player.. that should prove interesting Wage wise we just cant compete in these areas, we are becoming a service economy rather than a manufacturing economy.
Posted by el ess1 (Member # 1544) on :
It doesn't matter. The US economy will be drug down into the muck along with all the other third-world countries, and we'll have a majority of people living in poverty, once again. The cycle repeats itself. If people weren't so darned greedy to build the so-called "world economy" in the first place, we wouldn't have this mess. World-economy sucks for the richest nations in the world, because of some 2-cent, wannabe nations providing all the cheap labor, siphoning off jobs and deflating those richer nations' economy structure. But we let them get away with it, because why? It's good for everyone, they say. Bah! Catch-22. If people would have chosen not to buy imports, there'd be no market for them. Yet, at the same time, GM quality would be crappier than it is presently, becuase then they knew they'd be selling cars anyway with reduced competition. We let the cockroaches in the door, and now we're going to have to burn down the house to get rid of them. There's so many inequities against us on the import/export market, I'm afraid we're doomed.
Posted by DGOETZ (Member # 1846) on :
I would like to go on the record as saying my subframe connectors and strut tower braces are 100% Made in America. I found it too costly to even take all the parts to Kentucky to weld them together. It is a struggle to keep purchasing, manufacturing and sales departments fully staffed. Now I'm pretty sure all my competitors are using some employees that are not legal citizens of the USA.
I'm of course joking except for the part about my things being 100% American Made.
We buy things based on value there should be no other reason when considering a purchase. Can we buy American Products that have equal or better value...yes. Everyone's interpretation of value is different thus the reason for the exodus of jobs. Until Americans want to do jobs that pay less than they are worth the flight of jobs will continue.
Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
quote:Originally posted by MaryandRalph: How true,
Ditto! Posted by poSSum (Member # 119) on :
quote:Originally posted by Steven2000SS: And since Ford owns Jaguar then is it still a forgin car? (it is an import) after all the profits go to an american company..
I don't know that Jaguar under Ford has made any money yet
While I agree with some of the sentiment in this thread I'm not covinced that broad brush statements do the topic any justice.
IMO if people reduced the amount of imported product they buy .... where they are paying a premium e.g. cars, alcohol, some clothing, etc. it would already make a difference.
I don't believe the consumer is willing to pay the higher price, or the worker accept the lower wage required, for many of the low-tech, manual labor consumer products.
Posted by FireChicken (Member # 2067) on :
Possum says a lot of good things.
Personally, I like american made products. When it comes to things that have very specific engineering specifications, I have learned through research that a lot of foreign countries dont have the quality control, material resources, standards, or technological base to compete with us. You talk about a wellhead for a natural gas well, or large gate valves for oil well control, and you cant buy good stuff anywhere else. If you try to outsource part production to another country, you get inferior parts. Cheap labor is just that, cheap labor. Most clothing doesnt last very long these days, as I have learned. You know, you can buy vintage clothing from the 1960's and 1970's, and it is excellently made, cause its still wearable. however, do you think you will find a Tommy Hilfiger Abercrombie shirt in a store 30 years from now, still wearable? Absolutely not. The same thing also applies with cars, tools, and home appliances. If you buy something made in a foreign country, unless you buy a heavy-duty version, you are getting something that is pretty much inferior, and worthless. This not only has to do where its made, but also materials used. Let me tell a story.
My dad has a power drill, a "ShopMate" brand. Never seen it anywhere else. The drill belonged to my grandfather before my dad, and is older than I am. It has a cast aluminium casing, the information like name, serial number, etc, isnt on a sticker, its on a metal plate that is riveted to the housing of the drill. This drill will not die. It cannot die. It cannot be destroyed. It will most likely outlive my dad. It will most likely outlive me. I bought a power drill a couple of years ago, and its falling apart. Plastic pieces keep breaking, gears round off, etc. Sears used to have that problem with a lot of their powerdrills, a couple of years ago they introduced a series of power drills that have metal gearing, and they last MUCH longer.
People are beginning to realize that you can get stuff that is cheap, but it wont last. A crappy blender will blend, but it wont blend well unless you have a strong motor on it. It will burn out quickly, unless you can run the loads you need to without stalling it. As a result, many people complain, and the manufacturers are again beginning to react by making things better. A few cases in point:
1. Ford recently realized that they had outsourced a lot of their engineering, and they were making crappy vehicles as a result. Now they are focusing on technology, engineering, quality, and innovation, and moving to try and make better cars.
2. GM is doing the same thing. Look at the resurgence of RWD at GM, new things like 6 speed automatic trannys, research into more efficient V8 engines, and new materials research.
3. Sears power drills with metal gears, rather than plastic gears, like the ones in the firebird headlight motors.
4. You can now buy blenders and food disposals with more powerful motors, to do heavier duty work. The same goes with laundry machines and dish washers.
Some people will continue to buy cheap crap. Some companies will continue to make cheap crap.
But word of mouth will take off, and some people get tired of replacing things every year or two, and would rather get something and keep it for a decade. Just cause it makes life simpler.
One last case in point. Old time telephones, versus new ones. We've been using cordless, cell, and electronic phones for years. We found a guy who fixes old rotary telephones, with metal speaker components, rather than ones made from paper (like they do now). The old-rotary phone was made before my mother and father was born, and it is the clearest, most perfect signal I have ever heard on a phone. So we are getting a box of antique telephones, and getting them all repaired. I happen to like a clear signal, with no static, buzzing, or sound distoration.
As they say, "They dont make em like that anymore", I say, "Its time to quit buying new stuff, because it all sucks".
Posted by DanPazich (Member # 1352) on :
For my business adn society class, I will be doing a Social audit on General Motors (16-20 page paper) and will be touching on a lot of these ideas of outsourcing, customer commitment, quality, etc etc. I have only begun research, adn trying to stay as unbiased in my research as possible. In December when it's done I'll post it up here for you all to read. Should be quite interesting.
Posted by mhayman (Member # 146) on :
I too think Possum has some good points. I agree with the the topic of the thread but the way the US economy intertwines with the rest of the world makes this topic very difficult to discuss since there are so many levels you can take it.
Firechicken - while I agree with the point you make, I also know that cheap stuff has ALWAYS been made. The "vintage" things you see today are still here because they were quality products when they were made and have stood the test of time. All the cheap stuff that was produced in the old days is long gone, just like the cheap stuff that is made nowdays will be junk very soon. The things you will see left over 30 years and more from now are the items that are good quality. Using your tool example, don't expect a $40-50 drill to last a lifetime. If you want that to happen go buy a $200 drill. And that leads to my point which is....
There are still good quality products out there but you have to be willing to pay for it. And most people aren't - they'd rather have a disposable product and get a brand new one when the old one breaks than invest in a quality product. I am guilty of it, I am sure we all are. I would rather have a new car every few years than the same one for many many years. And that's why manufacturers have made many products disposable.
Reminds me of light bulbs - all the old lightbulbs (the ones in the late 19th century and early 20th century) were all capable of lasting for years. There are light bulbs that are 100 years old. So why do the ones we buy at the store burn out all the time? To keep the manufacturers in business. They couldn't stay in business if they produced bulbs that lasted 100 years.
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