That is so cool! Where were these commercials a few years ago???!!!! Posted by killabee (Member # 860) on :
Thanks for the heads up Scott, I was just saying to someother people Oh yeah the new vette is going to be on as it started.
It's just a shame that the point of the commericial to get you fired up over this car lineup and the C6 is the only one with any passion and following, the others will just come and go-I mean what's the focus lookalike.
How cool would it of been to back a new Camaro in to end the commercial instead we have the SSR. Cars aren't all about profit GM, where's the cars that the owners "love". Isn't that something meaningful to a company to have as far as a reputation instead of just abouch of soulless cars that most people don't even know or car about.
30k for an impala or monte SS. Remember when you could get a 300hp coupe for mid 20's. Yet its considered such a feat for Dodge to offer the bang for the buck and its a freakin Neon.
Posted by chrisL (Member # 97) on :
any significance to the Chevelle SS vert at the end of the commercial?
Posted by ss_rs_z (Member # 1888) on :
Great Commercial. Nuff said. Posted by Fbodfather (Member # 1119) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by killabee: [ (QUOTE) It's just a shame that the point of the commericial to get you fired up over this car lineup and the C6 is the only one with any passion and following, the others will just come and go-I mean what's the focus lookalike.
How cool would it of been to back a new Camaro in to end the commercial instead we have the SSR. Cars aren't all about profit GM, where's the cars that the owners "love". (UNQUOTE)
First, let me say that I'd be the first one in line to say there should be a new Camaro backing onto the car carrier. There isn't one doing that *right now* ('nuff said there.....)
I would not say that the SSR is a lookalike...or has no soul or passion. Far from it. I've been driving one for over 4 months now...and I gotta tell you, I've never had more people stop and stare and give me thumbs up.....in ANYTHING I've ever driven. It isn't necessarily my cup of tea, but it certainly hits a positive nerve with the public at large.
I think perhaps you're missing the point of the ad....the point is that there is a product revolution happening at Chevrolet. 10 new cars and trucks in the next 18 months.........
Yes, you and I fall in love with the roar of a performance V8/RWD. But you must also understand that not EVERYONE wants what you and I think of as perfect.
Let's look at Equinox.....it's a crossover vehicle that has a decidedly upscale look...at a chevy price. It has an abundance of features that its target market will love....even a back seat that moves forward and backward over 6 inches.....available AWD.....and the list goes on. The Malibu MAXX....a very affordable car with lots of great features....including the rear seat that moves forward and backward...giving the rear seat passenger more rear leg and footroom than a Lincoln Continental.
Now...I realize that perhaps not everyone can understand what others see in their 'love' for a car or truck....you and I don't like FWD...but keep in mind that Impala will probably close this year out with sales of around 270,000 units...and this is a relatively old car...
My point? Chevrolet represents a very broad product lineup.....and in order to become "U.S.A. #1" we need a varied product lineup.....from Aveo to Corvette...from Colorado to 4500 Series......from Equinox to Suburban...and everything in between.
Don't write us off just yet....you ain't seen nothing yet........
[ 01. January 2004, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: Fbodfather ]
Posted by killabee (Member # 860) on :
Scott, Didn't mean to put you in a position to defend your company. I'm a Chevy guy myself. I wasn't calling the SSR the lookalike. I saw something I could swear was a Focus and I'm sure it came to market to rival it. If anything I'd call the SSR retro and as we've seen retro may be a great attention getter, but who really goes out and buys it. Tbird for example was a great looking car but already cancelled.
But what I'm saying is I see all these new cars and trucks and none of them seem exciting. I'm not jumping online to see what they're all about. A "revolution" should stir up interest. Maybe I'm not the target addience. The last two GM cars that made me run and check out were GTO and Cad XLR. Now it seems to me that a $80000 performance Caddy isn't at market so much for sales but image, which is what I was getting at in my original post.
By the way Scott I saw Colussey in Bridgeville has a Z16 commenorative advertized as "former GM executive's car". Any chance that's the one you had at THenry over the summer?
Posted by Big A (Member # 1761) on :
The commercial is very good. I loved the Vett and the SSR but the SSR is WAY over priced. The second thing that drives on is nothing but a sub-sub compact death trap. I'm just not interested in looking at the rest of the vehicles. The SSR is a great looking vehicle and should be priced at about $29,000 including the one option group that's offered. Chevy needs to price there vehicles, like the did years ago, inexpensive, so that everyone can afford to buy one. Remember the commerial "See the USA in your chevrolet" hosted by I believe Lorne Green. Chevy had great pricing back then. I bet sales figures were very high back then as well. I hope to purchse a new Chevy in 2-3 years. The Vett is currently almost out of my price range and $40,000 plus for the SSR is out of the question. I would like a Camaro Z or SS made mostly in the USA or Canada, keep our people employed, with rear wheel drive and a V8 with 350-400 RWHP with a price in the mid to upper $20,000 range.
Posted by 2002 SLP SS (Member # 1893) on :
With the new Mustang gracing the current covers of both Hot Rod and Motor trend, and an article in Hot Rod talking about the demise of the Fbody, lets hope that a RWD/V-8 Chevelle or Camaro are to return to the Chevrolet stable! Personally I read many automotive articles and am tired of reading about Mustang the only pony car left after GM abandoned the Fbody! Yes the 2005 Corvette is awesome but the price point is out of reach for myself like many of us. Will there be a Chevelle SS in the future? We thought the GTO was forever gone but thanks to Bob Lutz it is reborn! Thanks to Scott Settlemire Fbodfather I have a strong feeling that he cannot reveal future plans but I feel RWD/V-8 with 400+ horsepower at most importantly a Chevrolet price is coming soon!
Posted by killabee (Member # 860) on :
Wouldn't the overhead costs of developing and producing the new LS2 and using in only one vehicle reduce the profit margin of the C6. The MSRP isn't that much higher is it.
If/when a new camaro comes out I don't see it being a FWD/V6, Gm has lots of those already and I don't think they want to ruin another nameplate and not use the LS2 that they have a ton of R&D money into.
Posted by CaminoLS6 (Member # 2041) on :
Great commercial. And, this is only the first warning shot in the Revolution. Never fear,Scott speaks the truth-good things are headed our way. I've spent alot of time reading GM's tea leaves over the last few years and I feel VERY good about the next few. I'm sure of two things: performance like never before and more RWD. Posted by Hawkeye (Member # 88) on :
I like it! My take on that is that Performance is back at Chevrolet. That commercial has performance written all over it! I think it's 1968 all over again and the horsepower war is on, this time with more modern technology. From Neon to Viper, from Cavalier to Z06, we'll all benefit. I feel exciting automotive times are ahead. Posted by ss_rs_z (Member # 1888) on :
quote:Originally posted by Big A: Chevy needs to price there vehicles, like the did years ago, inexpensive, so that everyone can afford to buy one.
I agree with this aspect and have been saying this for a long time. Drop the Group Options and go back to letting people decide what they want on their vehicles. I believe this would help with sales. Just my .02. Posted by DaddySS (Member # 848) on :
I look at it this way. In the past 4 years that I have owned the SS, I have seen Chevy commercials for the Trailblazer, Silverado, Avalanche (absurd), "Impala" (I put that in quotes because if that's an Impala I'm Scott Settlemire), Malibu, and Cavalier. None, zip, nada, for Camaro, Corvette, or any other performance vehicle.
Chevrolet is starting this year with a commercial that features some performance vehicles, so this is a much better start and outlook for us Bowtie fans.
P.S. Scott: PLEASE pass the word on - the horizontal bar that is becoming the trademark does nothing for the looks (detracts), and is way overdone. Posted by JohnS (Member # 1073) on :
We've seen the show, now let's see the go! Posted by KevinA (Member # 139) on :
the Aveo looks better than the cobalt.
Still undecided on the fixed headlights on the vette.
Still don't like the SSR (saw one in person too).
Cool commercial though.
Posted by 99 HOSS (Member # 109) on :
I agree with Hawkeye. I saw this commercial last night and it 'read' performance. Especially the SSR statement, doing a rolling 180 and backing onto the car carrier. That's like pulling into the local (crowded) drive-in, at 100 mph, putting the vehicle into controlled spin right square into a parking place. It says 'HEY, LOOK AT THIS'. How many commercials have you seen in the recent past from the import manufacturers that evoke that same theme. The Altima that comes down the deserted road backwards and does a reverse 180 and stops. Or the VW Passat on a wet road in a downtown in a 4 wheel drift around a corner. Why do I remember these, performance and style, within the commercial. Just wait until the start of the Speed World Challenge season, in March at Sebring. A CTS-V Cadillac competing in the GT ranks, next to the Corvette and amongst the Vipers and BMW's and the Audis.
Performance. For us diehards, we just need to be patient a little longer. Remember, the Mustang did come out first, then the Camaro. I like the looks and the spec sheet (and price) of the 'new' Mustang, but I'll wait.
Posted by 35th 02 ss (Member # 1667) on :
That did get my heart going, it does show GM is getting back in the game and GM is coming up with new and better cars and trucks and some may not be what we want, but it's what other people want. This could benefit us in a lot of ways, the SUV era appers to be slowing down and the rear wheels cars are starting to show back up on the dealer lots. I think you'll see the baby boomer generation start to buy sports cars, they may have the big SUV or the minivan sitting in the driveway or they might have a Caddy, but they also want that feeling of being young, remembering that drive they had when they were 16.
So maybe one day we will see the next red, white and blue badge sitting in the drive way, and then we can be reunited with an old freind. Posted by DanPazich (Member # 1352) on :
Downloaded the commercial and saw it adn then finally saw it on New Years Eve at the bar. Put a HUGE smile on my face, as did the majority of the people there, so I know Chevy has something good going for them. Watching the commercial is almost like taking that part out of a movie (eg. Italian Job, James Bond, etc.). It really captivates the audience which is important on the marketing aspect. A+++ I'm sure we'll be seeing a 5th Gen Camaro in commercials int he upcoming years, which was one thing that lacked with thet 4th gen (no marketing = no appeal) Maybe my next car I buy will still be Chevy. Posted by HTWLSS (Member # 117) on :
quote:Originally posted by killabee: A "revolution" should stir up interest.
I'm INTERESTED!
quote:Originally posted by Fbodfather: 10 new cars and trucks in the next 18 months.........
I see 6 cars on that carrier, so that means 4 are still under wraps (I'm supposing they're saving the best for last).
Posted by MM (Member # 1247) on :
quote:Originally posted by HTWLSS:
quote:Originally posted by killabee: A "revolution" should stir up interest.
I'm INTERESTED!
quote:Originally posted by Fbodfather: 10 new cars and trucks in the next 18 months.........
I see 6 cars on that carrier, so that means 4 are still under wraps (I'm supposing they're saving the best for last).
Im suprised nobody else caught that.... Posted by DanPazich (Member # 1352) on :
Well let's see....they didn't include the Cobalt on there did there, that's one.....
[ 02. January 2004, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: DanPazich ]
Posted by HTWLSS (Member # 117) on :
quote:Originally posted by DanPazich: Well let's see....they didn't include the Cobalt on there did there, that's one.....
Yeah, but that looks like a Cavalier.
(Had to do that.) Posted by Steve da Wrench (Member # 1301) on :
I like the ad very much. While I dont like all of the cars on it, I greatly appreciate Chevy's decision to FINALLY get off of their butts and produce a GOOD commercial
Hopefully they will keep it up, and maybe someday soon we will get to see an awesome ad with a 5th Gen Camaro smoking its tires in a huge power-circle or something Posted by killabee (Member # 860) on :
Ok if the commercial didn't feature a corvette, let alone debuting the new one, would you still be so excited.
Also in regards to no commercials with vettes, there are a ton of print ads.
Posted by FireChicken (Member # 2067) on :
quote:Originally posted by HTWLSS:
quote:Originally posted by DanPazich: Well let's see....they didn't include the Cobalt on there did there, that's one.....
Yeah, but that looks like a Cavalier.
(Had to do that.)
Bwahahahaha!!!
interesting commercial. I think it will be interesting to see how well GM can compete with the new mustang, the focus, and the new body style F-150. Ford is trying very hard to increase their market share, and GM is going to have to make better looking stuff that is better quality. It takes a lot of work to be number 1.
Posted by el ess1 (Member # 1544) on :
quote:Originally posted by HTWLSS: Yeah, but that looks like a Cavalier.
(Had to do that.)
Teri, EVERYTHING at GM looks like a Cavalier to you... (I had to do that, too.)
Posted by el ess1 (Member # 1544) on :
quote:Originally posted by FireChicken: It takes a lot of work to be number 1.
Agreed. And even harder work to STAY number 1, since you are now the one being chased.
Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
Great commercial! Just saw it today on tv. Posted by Spooky427 (Member # 1948) on :
I think that it is one of the best car commertials so I've seen in a while (besides the hemi ones) Even though the cars are not all my favorites it still gets my blood pumping to hear the v8 roar. There are tons of cars I'm not crazy about but we are subjected to them on tv all the time
Remember they only made a 69 Camaro in 1969. Just because they stopped production of the f-bods doesn't mean we have to stop enjoying ours.
Scott
Posted by chrisL (Member # 97) on :
quote:Originally posted by HTWLSS:
quote:Originally posted by DanPazich: Well let's see....they didn't include the Cobalt on there did there, that's one.....
Yeah, but that looks like a Cavalier.
it looks pretty good to me... and we have a Cavalier.
quote:Originally posted by killabee: Ok if the commercial didn't feature a corvette, let alone debuting the new one, would you still be so excited.
Good point...
The Vette is the only reason worth watching that commercial IMO.
Posted by DanA_F99_1977 (Member # 118) on :
quote:Originally posted by MMMM_ERT:
quote:Originally posted by killabee: Ok if the commercial didn't feature a corvette, let alone debuting the new one, would you still be so excited.
Good point...
The Vette is the only reason worth watching that commercial IMO.
Why watch it at all? The BMW commercial was on the tecno channel. You should send us links to the BMW commercials, I am sure that not only are the cars better, the commercials are higher quality too!
I don't know how GM can be so huge when so many people hate thier vehicles.
Posted by killabee (Member # 860) on :
Speaking solely for myself, it's just that minus the GTO there isn't a GM in my range that I'd consider buying and I WANT to buy GM. That's not hating it's disappointment. I don't like having to look at Evo's and WRX's as pony cars-I'm not buying that foreign crap. Enough boost can make anything go fast.
Right now I figure to do a 3rd gen LS1/m6 swap instead of buying a "new" car once my SS is paid off. Something about having 2 fbods is too cool so the lack of choices might be a good thing
[ 04. January 2004, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: killabee ]
Posted by T TOPSS (Member # 1674) on :
I think I count more like 8 models at the present time...1)Aveo,2)Cobalt,3)Corvette,4)Malibu, 5)Malibu Maxx,6)SSR,7)Equinox,8)Colorado soooo If thats the case only TWO mysteries remain Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
quote:Originally posted by DanA_F99_1977:
quote:Originally posted by MMMM_ERT:
quote:Originally posted by killabee: Ok if the commercial didn't feature a corvette, let alone debuting the new one, would you still be so excited.
Good point...
The Vette is the only reason worth watching that commercial IMO.
Why watch it at all? The BMW commercial was on the tecno channel. You should send us links to the BMW commercials, I am sure that not only are the cars better, the commercials are higher quality too!
I don't know how GM can be so huge when so many people hate thier vehicles.
This is funny...sounds like something I would say Pete. Posted by Hawk196 (Member # 2175) on :
quote:Originally posted by killabee: By the way Scott I saw Colussey in Bridgeville has a Z16 commenorative advertized as "former GM executive's car". Any chance that's the one you had at THenry over the summer?
Is Colussey the dealership in the Pitts. area that uses the ex-Steeler lineman (I can't remember his name) and advertises on Fox Sports Pittsburgh? I was watching a Steeler show and they had a 10th anny. Firehawk in the commercial.
Tom
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fbodfather: [QUOTE]Originally posted by killabee: [QUOTE] It's just a shame that the point of the commericial to get you fired up over this car lineup and the C6 is the only one with any passion and following, the others will just come and go-I mean what's the focus lookalike.
How cool would it of been to back a new Camaro in to end the commercial instead we have the SSR. Cars aren't all about profit GM, where's the cars that the owners "love". [/UNQUOTE]
First, let me say that I'd be the first one in line to say there should be a new Camaro backing onto the car carrier. There isn't one doing that *right now* ('nuff said there.....)
I would not say that the SSR is a lookalike...or has no soul or passion. Far from it. I've been driving one for over 4 months now...and I gotta tell you, I've never had more people stop and stare and give me thumbs up.....in ANYTHING I've ever driven. It isn't necessarily my cup of tea, but it certainly hits a positive nerve with the public at large.
I think perhaps you're missing the point of the ad....the point is that there is a product revolution happening at Chevrolet. 10 new cars and trucks in the next 18 months.........
Yes, you and I fall in love with the roar of a performance V8/RWD. But you must also understand that not EVERYONE wants what you and I think of as perfect.
Let's look at Equinox.....it's a crossover vehicle that has a decidedly upscale look...at a chevy price. It has an abundance of features that its target market will love....even a back seat that moves forward and backward over 6 inches.....available AWD.....and the list goes on. The Malibu MAXX....a very affordable car with lots of great features....including the rear seat that moves forward and backward...giving the rear seat passenger more rear leg and footroom than a Lincoln Continental.
Now...I realize that perhaps not everyone can understand what others see in their 'love' for a car or truck....you and I don't like FWD...but keep in mind that Impala will probably close this year out with sales of around 270,000 units...and this is a relatively old car...
My point? Chevrolet represents a very broad product lineup.....and in order to become "U.S.A. #1" we need a varied product lineup.....from Aveo to Corvette...from Colorado to 4500 Series......from Equinox to Suburban...and everything in between.
Don't write us off just yet....you ain't seen nothing yet........
Scott, as usual you have taken what appears to be nothing but a negative comment and gleaned out points that are worthy of defending. Now I am a Chevy fan through and through and few cars (none I can afford) have struck a chord with me like my Vettes or Camaros, but the Camaro is gone (for now) and the Vette won't take the family to dinner. So as much as I hate to say it Killabee has some points I agree with. I think they are being worked on, but I still want to make it clear that I love the rwd bang for the buck performance car that Chevy can build. I also love the Chevy SUV's. My wife and I recently bought an 03 Suburban and it is an awesome vehicle. Now the other cars that are targeting different market segments, I wouldn't like no matter who made them, so it's not fair for me to say GM sucks because they make a car I don't like...I just want them to make a few cars that I do like too.
...so are we still meeting at the Belagio for a certain unveiling of a certain vehicle when that certain vehicle is re-introduced Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
BTW, I just watched the commercial 3 times
The Vette sounds sweet, is that the real LS2 sound track?
I like the look of the front a lot better (fixed headlamps) in motion. I can't wait to see one in person.
[ 05. January 2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: SSHEETS ]
Posted by Jim Mac (Member # 113) on :
Saw the commercial yesterday for the first time - pretty cool! Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fbodfather:
I think perhaps you're missing the point of the ad....the point is that there is a product revolution happening at Chevrolet. 10 new cars and trucks in the next 18 months.........
Yes, you and I fall in love with the roar of a performance V8/RWD. But you must also understand that not EVERYONE wants what you and I think of as perfect.
Scott, in a couple of the short conversations we have had, I understand your point about FWD, and I think you know that I absolutely detest FWD. I have always driven RWD cars and I intend to keep on doing that until I can no longer drive. If this means that I do not buy new product.....so be it!!
I understand the advantages of FWD and I recently learned why it is the perferred drive train configuration in rallying. But not everyone drives in a dynamic friction environmnet and left foot brakes to change a car's attitude in a corner.
It seems to me, that vehicles have moved into two distinct camps; these being "appliance vehicles" and "fun/personal enjoyment vehicles".
I would say the Impala, Malibu and Equinox are appliance cars. FWD makes sense for these types of cars, given the average drivers lack of skill, lack of interest in driving, and the space/weight saving gains. Not to mention mnufacturing/assembly ease.
I would classify the SSR and Corvette as fun/persaonal enjoyment cars. Interestly, both are rear wheel drive.
I have also noticed this trend with other manufacturers....especially with the imports. Their personal luxury cars are RWD. Their appliance cars are FWD. The one exception being Subaru who have managed to make fun cars with AWD.
About appliances, you can imagine my "excitement" when GE introduces a new fridge or stove. I imagine there might be one or two people who get excited about such news, but.....
So you can see how I feel about the introduction of new appliance cars. Forgive me, but I am just not interested or excited about new appliances.
But a new Corvette, an SSR with balls, a hot GTO with RWD, now that I take notice of and I get excited about that type of news. I really enjoyed the new ad (the one minute version on TV) for the glimpse of the C6.
Notice I have not mentioned the Solstice so far in the fun/personal enjoyment category. I recently read it will be introduced as a 4 banger. CRAP...how did that happen?? Enough said!!!
I realize I am in the very very small minority and I know that appliance cars are here to stay. I just hope and pray that the success of appliance cars will put enough money in the kitty so that the human side of GM will come through and give the few of us "perforamce guys" an affordable decent balls out RWD performance car....soon....PLEASE!!!
Until then, this dinosaur will sit on the sidelines.
Posted by MM (Member # 1247) on :
quote: Notice I have not mentioned the Solstice so far in the fun/personal enjoyment category. I recently read it will be introduced as a 4 banger. CRAP...how did that happen?? Enough said!!!
Well its going to have a supercharged 240hp motor.... and being that it weighs next to nothing it should move ok.... and that it will start UNDER 20G's.... is impressive in my book... should be one helluva a mitia (sp?) fighter etc.
Posted by killabee (Member # 860) on :
SSheets, the only thing I see negative is how your first sentence directs me and my opinion. I stated I feel that there isn't a lot in the lineup to be excited about. I didn't call the cars anything negative however implied boring. Clearly they aren't enthuisest cars but daily drivers. You make me sound uneducated by saying "gleaned out points". Hey if you like them fine say so, if you don't fine say so. Sounds to me like you more or less aren't that thrilled yet you "hate to agree" with me, like that's the worst thing to do. What have I ever done on this board or the SLP?
You know I have been off on other boards but returned back here where I know alot more people but I see the same petty BS going on with MMM and now this, if I wanted this type of rudeness I'd stay on the other forums.
Posted by killabee (Member # 860) on :
Scott, In response to the "love" thing and Impala selling well, I know 4 people with Impala's and trust me none of them "love" them. Not because its a bad car or anything like that, but they aren't car people-which is why they bought the Impala, its just practical. I don't think there any many ImpalaLS.com's out there. My point was while the Fbods may not have been the most profitable, isn't having a car with such a following worth having to a company. At very least don't you think those people are more likely to buy another GM and spread the word.
Posted by Billiumss (Member # 413) on :
I saw it the other day on TV and loved it, both the wife and I thought it was bad azz.
Maybe that Hotwheels 'Muscle Tone' is in the works, could be one that GM is talking about...
Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Originally posted by MM:
Well its going to have a supercharged 240hp motor.... and being that it weighs next to nothing it should move ok.... and that it will start UNDER 20G's.... is impressive in my book... should be one helluva a mitia (sp?) fighter etc.
Hmmmm, 240 hp does sound interesting. The caption I read said 170 hp, which sounded an awful like a Cavalier EcoTec engine, hence my comment.
So, how much torque?? To me this is more important than HP. Recall the Honda S2000 has good horespower numbers but it is a slug due to no torque.
Sure hope Pontiac can deliever for that price....with the supercharged engine.
Posted by killabee (Member # 860) on :
That's another thing going on recently, even if the car is "sporty" you either can have it in 3800, 3800, or just recently 3800SC. And all automatics.
Posted by MM (Member # 1247) on :
quote:Originally posted by killabee: That's another thing going on recently, even if the car is "sporty" you either can have it in 3800, 3800, or just recently 3800SC. And all automatics.
I would say wait until next year.... they get a "little" help in the cubic inches dept.... ye have little faith.... Posted by Orange 01 SS (Member # 1700) on :
quote:Originally posted by killabee: Scott, In response to the "love" thing and Impala selling well, I know 4 people with Impala's and trust me none of them "love" them. Not because its a bad car or anything like that, but they aren't car people-which is why they bought the Impala, its just practical. I don't think there any many ImpalaLS.com's out there. My point was while the Fbods may not have been the most profitable, isn't having a car with such a following worth having to a company. At very least don't you think those people are more likely to buy another GM and spread the word.
Actually, my wife has a 2002 Impala LS, and she really does love it. She's pretty car savvy, too. You can find people who are just as passionate about their Impalas as we are about Camaros ...
I could keep finding stuff all day. The point is, just because we think we know what people want because we know what we want, doesn't mean we really know.
Moderator edit: Added space in long url to hopefully get the thread back into the window. Sorry for any inconvience.
[ 06. January 2004, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: poSSum ]
Posted by el ess1 (Member # 1544) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orange 01 SS: I could keep finding stuff all day. The point is, just because we think we know what people want because we know what we want, doesn't mean we really know.
Oh great Orange one, you are dead on with that conclusion. One of the things that people (aka F-body crazies) around here love is that we DO have what we consider, if not the all-perfect car, a "perfect-for-us" car. We're simply biased, hence here we are.
Problem is, our passions cloud our judgements most of the time and we're not open to the "other side" as much as we probably should be. The Impala, et al, are great cars for their class, based on sales and satisfaction reports I've seen (I'm assuming they're fairly accurate). The F-body died, and what was the 2003 numbers for GM? Did us not having the F-body do damage to GM's bottom line? No.
GM, I believe, is no longer building cars THEY think we, the buying public, want to purchase. I think they're actually listening to consumers, and also tracking what they buy as to help in their business ventures (not the minivan). Unfortunately, we're a drop in the bucket in the GM demographic preference department. But they're trying to get people excited about GM cars again. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but they are trying. I think the evolution, or Revolution, will be like the situation in Iraq. It'll take a little time, but pretty soon we'll see the sun start to shine again. Depends on what ol' Mr. Lutz lets them do.
Do most of us, as F-body lovers, feel left out in the "new GM direction"? I'd be lying if I said we didn't. Sure, we want an affordable, high-performance RWD car that will equal or surpass the 2002 F-body in quality and performance. All at a Chevrolet/Pontiac price (<-- what does this really mean other than a vague marketing statement? ). So if the Camaro is to be re-born, we'll surely check it out and consider it, but only if we "approve" of how it turns out. I kinda doubt Firebird will be back, but I could be wrong. Rebirthing the Camaro for the long haul is the part where GM is sorta scared, since initially sales might be good, but if it's not a hit, it will be a big waste of money. The trick is to build a similar pony car to consistently equal or outnumber the sales of Mustangs. If that can be done, any "NEW" Camaro will be around for a long time.
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
quote:Originally posted by killabee: SSheets, the only thing I see negative is how your first sentence directs me and my opinion. I stated I feel that there isn't a lot in the lineup to be excited about. I didn't call the cars anything negative however implied boring. Clearly they aren't enthuisest cars but daily drivers. You make me sound uneducated by saying "gleaned out points". Hey if you like them fine say so, if you don't fine say so. Sounds to me like you more or less aren't that thrilled yet you "hate to agree" with me, like that's the worst thing to do. What have I ever done on this board or the SLP?
You know I have been off on other boards but returned back here where I know alot more people but I see the same petty BS going on with MMM and now this, if I wanted this type of rudeness I'd stay on the other forums.
Killabee, I didn't mean to flame you, it's just that your's was the post Scott quoted and I was pointing out Scott's response to all the negativity. Don't deny your comment wasn't negative...I actually do agree with alot of what you are saying and I see it as my negative opinions about current GM design, styling and performance offerings. That's the point! You laid it out and Scott responded. I hope that Scott can get our opinions to the right poeple. That's whay I get tired of the GM bashing (not accussing you of that) and enjoy the discussion of what we (the loyals) feel should be on the design tables today.
What we see in Scott's offerings is hopefully the beginning of that change. When a 5th gen Camaro with RWD and 400+HP is offered we know the we (us and Scott) have had our collective voices heard.
Anyway, sorry if I hit you a little too low there Killabee. please accept my apologies and take it the way I meant it. We're all here for the same reason and flaming each other is not one of them!
[ 06. January 2004, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: SSHEETS ]
Posted by MMMM_ERT (Member # 1599) on :
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: We're all here for the same reason and flaming each other is not one of them!
Shut the hell up SSheethead!
(okay...this was meant as a joke. Tim and I do this to eachother on another board all the time it was not meant maliciously)
[ 07. January 2004, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: MMMM_ERT ]
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
quote:Originally posted by MMMM_ERT:
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: We're all here for the same reason and flaming each other is not one of them!
Shut the hell up SSheethead!
Pete, Pete, Pete...where do I start? or more important where do I finish?
I agree that the current offerings of GM are not what most of us testosterone driven pedal to the metal car nuts desire, but I do think that Scott and others like him are not only listening to us, they share our philoshopies. It's tough to envoke change in corporate America. It takes time to see change. I think we are seeing the signs of the beginning of change and I think we need to be diplomatic (read socially acceptable for you Mertle boy) with our opinions and encouragement of what we want to see.
About a year ago the CEO of our segment of corporate America (300,000 +employees) gave us a talk. One of the interesting comments he made was, "We need to build what the people will buy, not what the poeple want!"
While I do not agree with that comment, I understand it is the definition of want verses need. The sweet spot is when you have something that you both need and want. Corporate America survives off of one thing only and that is profit.
It's easy to not like the Caveleir, but that car was not targeted for us. I don't like it anyless or more than the competing cars in its market. The C6 I like with a few critiques, but I still haven't seen one in person.
The problem for guys like us is that gaping hole where the Camaro and Firebird once stood. In time I hope that will be resolved with a car that I will both need and want.
In the mean time I don't need a BMW and I don't want one Posted by cytruffle (Member # 1733) on :
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: I agree that the current offerings of GM are not what most of us testosterone driven pedal to the metal car nuts desire
'SKEWWWWWWWZ me, buddy.....ya might wanna rephrase that.... Posted by MMMM_ERT (Member # 1599) on :
Hey Timmy Boy...you do know I was kidding with my above post? Little Addict humor...
I like what you've posted above, it all makes sense to me, I can see it from others point of view too.
As for me...I'm flatline when it comes to GM, there is no hope of me buying another after this experience. Today is just another example of what I've been saying, by now you've read the "latest" problems with my car. I really am going to look into getting rid of the car. This car is the worst car I have ever owned as far as quality/reliability. Don't even get me started on the dealer service issues as noone here needs to hear that for the 4003rd time.
Don't start thinkin you'll all be rid of me though! I will always have my 68 Camaro and it "Chirps Third" so I believe I STILL fit in here.
BTW...
The Infiniti G35 coupe has my eye these days and is in the 33K+ range.
I recommend seeing one in person. Posted by killabee (Member # 860) on :
Orange, Not trying to drag this out but I don't really feel you've proven me wrong by posting those. The forums I saw that had more than 30 posts and/or members were about Lt1 impalas. Someone having a website showing there car, well people have websites showing off all sorts of things in there life. It doesn't prove a vibrate community of owners who are passionate.
This is all besides the point. What I have been contining to say is that this ad campaign named after one of the biggest events in history is a bit overinflated. that's my opinion, have yours. Are these cars going to make GM not lose 3% of the market again this year-we'll see. Will any of them be 10bests or win similar awards-we'll see. Would I run out and check any of them out or has anyone said anything to me about the models themselves like"did you see that new_____" NO. How about you, I'm sure most of you have had a conversation or brought something up to someone about the C6 or GTO, how about the MAXX or whatever the other cars are and speak about it in an anticipating way? If you see one in traffic will you beep the horn or give the guy a thumbs up? Are you egarely awaiting your local auto show to get a first hand look? If so great. I will but only cause I'll be running over to see that C6 and while I'm there mind as well.
Ok I'm done with this guys, have fun. I never really intended to be negative, but to give my honest opinion of whats going on, which I say is neither postive or negative. I think its to dull to really think one way or the other. The same old stuff packed a different way.
Posted by el ess1 (Member # 1544) on :
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: About a year ago the CEO of our segment of corporate America (300,000 +employees) gave us a talk. One of the interesting comments he made was, "We need to build what the people will buy, not what the poeple want!"
While I do not agree with that comment, I understand it is the definition of want verses need.
I'm inclined to believe that to an extent. The "need" part isn't even in there in my interpretation. 95% of the cars on the lots today are more "wants" than needs. Who NEEDS a Corvette, or a Denali, or SSR, or an extended cab SS pickup? Not many, if at all. But to have a choice across the $$ range is a great thing. Something for everyone.
There's no use building it if people won't buy it, even if they DO want to see it built. However, with that said, most people who aren't "car people" tend to buy more practical cars. And there's a lot more of them than there are of us. But the behind the scenes issue with that CEO's statement comes right back to the simplistic viewpoint that trumps ALL other issues of being in the car business, or any business, and that is doing what is necessary to attract (and hopefully keep) customers. If everyone was willing to buy purple LS6 F-cars for the next 10 years running, you can bet GM would still be making them.
But I digress. The commercials are a great start to try and stir interest. Remember, the savvy Chevy nuts like us know what we're looking for, where most others don't know. That's why Chevy makes those commercials.
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
quote:Originally posted by cytruffle:
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: I agree that the current offerings of GM are not what most of us testosterone driven pedal to the metal car nuts desire
Sorry Milli Posted by TimeLord (Member # 1389) on :
Quit resisting,,,,,,,,,,,
You will all be assimilated by GM Marketing in due time......
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE !!!!!!!
Posted by chrisL (Member # 97) on :
Serge, when you plannin on popping up and greeting Spirit anyway?
Posted by Fbodfather (Member # 1119) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by killabee: [QB] Scott, In response to the "love" thing and Impala selling well, I know 4 people with Impala's and trust me none of them "love" them. (End QUOTE)
I think perhaps you're perhaps misunderstanding the various "definitions" of "Love" -- many of us on the board get hot and bothered (well, me at least... ..by the sound of a V8 under full acceleration...we love the way our Camaros and Firebirds stick to the road as if they had velcro on 'em.....and the way you get shoved back in the seat as you floor the accelerator. Many people "love" their cars for other reasons....perhaps it is the safety they feel within it....perhaps it is the quiet cushy ride.....the bottom line is that there are many many many people out there that "love" their Camry or their Impala or their Taurus..however, you will NOT see 'em give each other a thumbs up the way we do......that does not mean they don't love their cars. Now....I submit to you that when a company is going to replace 90% of their models in a short period of time, that's a revolution...esp. if there are new features that would cause someone (no..not me or you) to take notice........
You see, if you run a car company, you'd better be able to look into many minds........just as you wish that everyone at GM would look into the minds of the Fbody enthusiast, it's important to look into the minds of the mainstream consumer as well. I am not saying that every car we build will be a home run......
But I would also say to you that some of our products get dumped on before they're even driven.
[ 06. January 2004, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: Fbodfather ]
Posted by TimeLord (Member # 1389) on :
FBod !!
We and BMW and Mustang owners will LOVE our cars.
Camry and Honda[S2000 excluded] owners will like their cars because they deliver as expected and are low maintenance.They feel the same way about their cars as we feel about a toaster or VCR !!!!
Posted by killabee (Member # 860) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fbodfather: [QUOTE]
But I would also say to you that some of our products get dumped on before they're even driven.
You mean like the GTO by the same market that was supposed to embrace it.
Ok I said I was done but I have to admit the last couple posts made aware of an oversight on my part. I forgot that most people don't sit on car sites, get car magazines, etc...so maybe the point of the ads is to stir interest or perhaps motivate people, who otherwise wouldn't, take notice of what's going on. As a said before I just am not the target market.
I did go to the chevy site and one of them is a $9500 car that would make a nice beater, I mean basic transportation Posted by Fbodfather (Member # 1119) on :
quote:Originally posted by TimeLord: FBod !!
We and BMW and Mustang owners will LOVE our cars.
Camry and Honda[S2000 excluded] owners will like their cars because they deliver as expected and are low maintenance.They feel the same way about their cars as we feel about a toaster or VCR !!!!
(banging head against wall..............)
OK...lemme try ONE more time.........
I'll use an example: I have an aunt that lives in Ohio. She has a LeSabre. She LOVES that LeSabre.....no, her heart does not beat faster everytime she fires up the 3800..........
She LOVES the way it rides. She LOVES the security that it gives her. She LOVES the heated leather seats..esp. on cold Ohio days and nights. AND...LeSabre has one of the highest loyalty rates in the industry.......NO...you and I don't get it.......and SHE doesn't seem to get it with my "noisy" "rough riding" Camaros......
MY POINT: It is a BROAD market out there...and a car company has to understand the motivations of would-be buyers out there. If you are GM or Ford or Chrysler or Honda, you'd DAMN WELL better understand what makes the various segment buyers tick....or you're gone.......
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
Scott, the love of a car...you guys did it great with the early 4th gen commercials and the two kids talking while the Z28 rumbled down the street. That's what I've been talking about here. That's what Killabee's been saying too. I know you feel the same way, It's when you need what you want,but GM needs to show profit and sell economy cars to the masses and they can't do that with only RWD V8s. I love the prancing black horse, but even they couldn't retain ownership of their exotic car company.
Now to own a Camaro or a Corvette is to experiance love for me. I've always admired the curves and that seat of the pants feel. Don't tell my wife, but I just opned my SS up to 140MPH tonight. "After reading Pete's post I needed to blow off some steam."
Like I said earlier. only a few of GMs cars would be in my interest. The family car is an 03 Suburban which is an awesome vehicle. My toy is the SS. The Corvette I sold will someday be replaced by another when I no longer need the back seat to take the kids around town. I hope when that time comes I can still keep my SS as the love I feel for it will always be there.
I hope that someday soon I'll see another commercial with two kids talking, dreamy eyed as a 5th gen Camaro takes a cruise down the neighborhood street.
Posted by MMMM_ERT (Member # 1599) on :
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: "After reading Pete's post I needed to blow off some steam."
TIM!!!!! That was a joke...you and I do that all the time over on Addict! I hope you aren't serious that my joke made you have to go out and blow off steam...or are you talking about another post? Posted by TimeLord (Member # 1389) on :
FBod !!!! I was agreeing with you ,,,,,,,,
[ 07. January 2004, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: TimeLord ]
Posted by Fbodfather (Member # 1119) on :
quote:Originally posted by TimeLord: FBod !!!! I was agreeing with you ,,,,,,,,
whoops........sowwwy!!!! Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
quote:Originally posted by MMMM_ERT:
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: "After reading Pete's post I needed to blow off some steam."
TIM!!!!! That was a joke...you and I do that all the time over on Addict! I hope you aren't serious that my joke made you have to go out and blow off steam...or are you talking about another post?
A little defensive there Mertleboy? Hey, it was late and I was on an open road with no other cars in sight. I found redline in 3rd, then about 5,500 in 4th I took it to 140 in 5th and backed out. (I had to, I was on the road behind the Sheriffs Station and I was headed their way ) Maybe it wasn't you that did it, but I was frustrated over the whole bantering back and forth deal. I agree with Fbodfather and now feel like I stepped on my unit with my reference to Killabee. But my reference to you was tongue and cheeck, heck we all know that any excuse to play in the triple digits is a good one Posted by killabee (Member # 860) on :
What I'm saying too is there is also a admiration and reputation thing. That's why dodge came out with the Viper. That's why caddy now has the XLR.
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
quote:Originally posted by killabee: What I'm saying too is there is also a admiration and reputation thing. That's why dodge came out with the Viper. That's why caddy now has the XLR.
On that note...after watching "Rides" last night, I couldn't help but think about how public Ford and others are with their concept/development stuff. It frustrates me that GM does so much of that type of work as if it where a Skunkworks project of the CIA. I'd love to see more of the back room stuff GM is working on (5th gen Camaro?) Sure, they may not all make it to market, but let us see what the dreams are so we can provide feedback and dream also. Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fbodfather: ....I submit to you that when a company is going to replace 90% of their models in a short period of time, that's a revolution...esp. if there are new features that would cause someone (no..not me or you) to take notice........
You see, if you run a car company, you'd better be able to look into many minds........just as you wish that everyone at GM would look into the minds of the Fbody enthusiast, it's important to look into the minds of the mainstream consumer as well. I am not saying that every car we build will be a home run......
Okay, I finally see your point. That represents a big change for a company....and a risky one too I might add.
I for one did not realize that that big a change was coming, so thank you for the letting us know about that Scott.
While I have said that the vast majoirty of the GM product line is not for me...I am a hardcore performance car addict....I will now be watching what is about to unfold with some interest and I will try to keep an open mind......even about FWD
I kind of get the sense this revolution is due to a fundemental change at GM, in that GM is once again thinking like a car company at the top rather than thinkig of itself as a company that makes money by, incidently, producing cars. I hope and pray I am right.
I look forward to being able to recommend with confidence some of the new cars to those who ask for my suggestion.
Just don't ask me to buy one of them....I'm holding out for "the" affordable GM RWD sports/performance cars. I get the sense it's coming too!!
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That's like pulling into the local (crowded) drive-in, at 100 mph, putting the vehicle into controlled spin right square into a parking place. It says 'HEY, LOOK AT THIS'.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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