I have a 2002 35th Anniversary SS Vert with all the SLP options including the Auburn Performance Differential. The following is my nightmare saga with the damn Auburn:
1.) At 3000 miles the differential was chattering excessively and Brown and Brown Chevrolet in Mesa, AZ ended up rebuilding it. 2.) Several thousand miles later the differential was leaking oil so I brought the car to Chapman Chevrolet in Chandler, AZ where they proceeded to repair the leak and then upon finishing they torqued it improperly leading to a blowout when I got a block away from the dealership. They then repaired the blownout differential and proceeded to torque it improperly again so when the service manager was bringing the car out to me at my work it blew out again and needed to be towed back to the shop. They then repaired it yet another time; finally doing it properly(or so I thought). They admitted everything to which I have documentation. 3.) Several thousand miles later the differential started chattering excessively again. After reading a thread on the SLP SS Forum(that used to exist); I became aware that the SLP Auburn does not use synthetic oil(this is also in the SLP owners manual). I was curious so I checked my service receipts and to my surprise, each time the differential had been worked on they used the wrong fluids. At that point I contacted Dave Hamburger at SLP who verified that the Auburn uses Dino oil and that using the synthetic would lead to premature wear and blow out the differential again. He stated that the dealer should replace the differential. To make a long story short, GM refused to replace the differential and the GM rep simply had a different dealership flush the differential and put the correct fluids in it. 4.) Now several thousand miles later the differential is leaking agian. I have been dealing with the GM rep for the past 2 months and he refuses to replace the differential stating that it is fine with synthetics; even though the owners manual and Dave Hamburger from SLP state otherwise. I have e-mailed Scott Settlemire whom I met personally over a year ago but have not gotten a response.
The bottom line is I have a car that was over $40,000 MSRP and I am stuck dealing with incompetent dealerships and people who want to put a bandaid on the problem instead of fixing it properly; just so they can save a few bucks. It is not like I am trying to get something for free; to be honest I could care less whether or not they replace the differential as long as I don’t have to keep bringing it back every few thousand miles to get repaired. However considering the owners manual says NOT to use synthetics and the company that GM contracts to put the part on the car says it needs to be replaced if it has run 20,000 miles with synthetics; then I don’t think it us unreasonable to have it replaced. Does GM think that I enjoy visiting their dealerships every couple of months to get my car fixed? Do they really think in the long run they are saving money by continually having to repair this?
I honestly don’t have any idea how it is good customer service to treat people like this. Between me and my wife, our last 6 cars have been Chevrolet(4 Camaros, 1 Lumina, and 1 Prizm). Is it any wonder that my wife’s latest vehicle is a Honda. Does GM honestly think that I am going to drop another $40,000 into a GM car and have to deal with bull**** like this again.
Where I come from, I was raised to take responsibility for your actions and when you screw up to accept the consequences and do whatever is needed to rectify. You don't impose your mistakes on others. In other words, when you put the wrong fluids in someones differential and following they end up having continual problems; you then replace the part and resolve the problem.
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
First of all don't give up. Call GM's Customer Assistance Center.......1-800-222-1020 and open an incident. Have your VIN number ready and be prepared to give them all the details of your problem. Before you do that though, you may want to call SLP back and discuss the problem furthur with them. Since they are the ones that installed the Auburn, I would be curious what their agreement is with Chevrolet regarding issues like this....in other words who has to approve a replacement, Chevrolet or SLP?
Now as regards the way you were treated, I agree with you 100%. It is just poor business practices to treat customers like this. Be sure you voice your thoughts to the Customer Assistance people on this as well. I don't know if GM, Chevrolet, or their dealers will ever truly understand how offensive this type of treatment is to a customer. But at the same time, not all dealers are necessarily bad and will treat you this way.....but finding a really good one seems to be harder and harder these days.
Best of luck in getting your problem resolved.
Posted by muscle96ss (Member # 2203) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS_CarGuy: First of all don't give up. Call GM's Customer Assistance Center.......1-800-222-1020 and open an incident. Have your VIN number ready and be prepared to give them all the details of your problem. Before you do that though, you may want to call SLP back and discuss the problem furthur with them. Since they are the ones that installed the Auburn, I would be curious what their agreement is with Chevrolet regarding issues like this....in other words who has to approve a replacement, Chevrolet or SLP?
Now as regards the way you were treated, I agree with you 100%. It is just poor business practices to treat customers like this. Be sure you voice your thoughts to the Customer Assistance people on this as well. I don't know if GM, Chevrolet, or their dealers will ever truly understand how offensive this type of treatment is to a customer. But at the same time, not all dealers are necessarily bad and will treat you this way.....but finding a really good one seems to be harder and harder these days.
Best of luck in getting your problem resolved.
Actually I have already been through the GM Customer Assistance Center and have an open case right now but they refuse to do anything except re-seal the leak.
I spoke with SLP yesterday and they said that the documentation that SLP provides GM states that Dino Oil is MANDATORY and that they would be more than willing to provide the GM rep with the necessary documentation or any other info if he chooses to contact them but that they have no authority to do anything else.Unfortunately, the GM rep is not competent enough to contact them as he did not have their phone number. Once I provided him with the phone number and the contact name there; a month transpired and he made excuses that they have not returned his calls. He also stated that the part was not available anymore which is wrong as when I spoke with SLP yesterday I was told that it can be gotten directly from them.
Posted by TimeLord (Member # 1389) on :
Yep thats GM logic for you,hasn't changed any since 1995 !!!!!!
Fight,Bitch,Scream,Complain,Make noise only thing that works!!!!!!!
Good Luck !!
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
You might want to research this web site on Lemon Laws LINK It doesn't hurt to have some extra ammunition in your pocket if this problem isn't taken care of to your satisfaction.
Posted by Hawkeye (Member # 88) on :
Not a lot of fun for you to go through the heartache of that. Stick with, things will get resolved.
I also have the Auburn. On the first differential change, I called Auburn Gear in Indiana, and confimred with them - NO Synthetic Lube! Perhaps they can send you a letter to that effect and with that the GM dealer may correct the problem for you.
My thoughts - and - Good Luck! Be forecful but polite and you will get results.
[ 08. January 2004, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Hawkeye ]
Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
You mentioned that you emailed Scott. Scott will answer you it may take some time. He is very busy at this time of the year with all the auto shows around the counry.
Sit tight and he will send an answer to you as soon as he can
Posted by poSSum (Member # 119) on :
I guess this is where marketing wants to take customer service by the throat and explain how they're spending 50 million dollars on a "hot button" program to get people INTO the showroom ....so would you please quit chasing them OUT.
We've rehashed this one to death here and elsewhere ...price and/or product will get you one sale ....customer service will earn loyalty and repeat business ...and when you lose a customer, they rarely come back.
Good luck with getting your auburn situation resolved. Hopefully common sense will prevail.
Posted by Mike2001SS (Member # 2088) on :
One of the problems with dealers is they have hardly anyone that truely knows how to set up a rear end and when they cause one to mess up they don't want to pay out of their pocket.The trouble with going to GM for warranty on it is GM don't want to pay for the dealers screw up but may can put some pressure on them to do whats right. I had a 98 SS that the rear leaked and the dealer had to do it 3 times to get it right and the 3rd time they had put all the bearings and everything new in as they had torqued it to uch and burnt it out but they did fix it finally. I have a 2001 SS with the auburn rear with no trouble yet and it has 60,000 miles on it and has been raceda few times at the track
Posted by FireChicken (Member # 2067) on :
This is exactly why I do not take my car into ANYWHERE to have it worked on, unless I stand there the entire time, and supervise it. All too often, you find technicians that are incompetant.
Unfortunately, most of this is due to the fact that technicians are usually trained in procedural stuff, they know what to do, they dont know why you do it, or how the stuff works. So, of course, they think nothing of improperly torquing the bolts on your differential (or my lugnuts), because they dont understand how the stuff works. When you torque bolts down, no matter what they are on, if they are over torqued, you are going to have some combination of the following problems created:
1. Problems with bolts/threads. This includes shearing, fracture, stripping, or other deformation on the threaded stud of the hole it goes into.
2. Problems with other stuff. This includes warping of metallic components like aluminum wheels, or heads, or differential caps, or the gasket between differential cap and body that promotes leakage, etc.
Of course, you may have both. Personally, I think you emailing Fbodfather was a good choice. If your GM rep is giving you a bunch of crap, I would suggest that you tell him you want to speak to his boss. If he's telling you that the parts are not available, and you know they are, its obvious he doesnt know what he's talking about. I would suggest that you put together a conference call. Arranged to have him, yourself, and a technical representative from SLP on the phone. If you can get the GM rep's boss on the line at the same time, that will really make him look bad. If worst comes to worst, just take them to small claims court. You have enough legal documentation, and it would take very little for you to get affidavits from Scott or Dave to show the judge. of course, if you take the dealer to court, they will probably offer to settle out first, which will be cheaper for them in the long run.
However, a word of warning. I would not have them do the work, since its pretty obvious they are incompetant. I would suggest you take it to another dealership.
And it sucks that personal responsibility is on the decline, but as the old adage goes, if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.
Posted by 2002 SLP SS (Member # 1893) on :
I went to dealer a Phelan chevrolet in Lyons Illinois, the morons changed my fluid and installed syn lube telling me "it is the right oil" I told them no I drove car about 50 miles total and sent email to Dave Hamburger he wrote back only dino oil or the Auburn would blow! So the idiots at that dealership refused to change it took to another dealer Rizza Chevrolet in Bridgeview,Il. they changed it to dino oil immediately and told me that "The Morons at Phelan are incompetant" I seccond that opinion! It is again some dealers with extremely back customer service and the Gm help line offered no remedy! Good liuck! for 40K it should be properly serviced maybe Chevrolet needs to get tough on dealers that are so incompetant and close them up!
Posted by poSSum (Member # 119) on :
Allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment ....I'm not defending anyone ...I've had the same problems and I print out a detailed instruction sheet when I take the car in for service ....type of oil, no gasket or silicone ....yada, yada, yada ....and they manage to get it wrong anyway
IMO the auburn option may have been poorly thought through by SLP as it adds very specific requirements to a very small number of cars (correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was the least ordered Y2Y option). I would excuse a dealer for getting it wrong if they hadn't been CLEARLY instructed up front by the customer.
Posted by chrisL (Member # 97) on :
quote:Originally posted by poSSum: IMO the auburn option may have been poorly thought through by SLP as it adds very specific requirements to a very small number of cars (correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was the least ordered Y2Y option). I would excuse a dealer for getting it wrong if they hadn't been CLEARLY instructed up front by the customer.
yes and no.... since it is OE content, they should check the approptiate documentation.
that being said, I only let one place do my rear oil changes and its not a GM dealer. It's a restoration shop. The owner was a fellow Firehawk owner, until he bought a Z06 last year.
If you follow SLP's instructions by the letter, youre supposed to let the sealant cure for 24hrs before using it, and I aint leavin my car in the hands of any yahoos overnight if I can help it.
Posted by muscle96ss (Member # 2203) on :
quote:Originally posted by poSSum: I would excuse a dealer for getting it wrong if they hadn't been CLEARLY instructed up front by the customer.
I agree in the fact that while the dealer is at fault, they are not completely at fault. However, it is not the customer who needs to CLEARLY instruct the dealer, it is GM who needs to CLEARLY instruct the dealer on their product.
In fact, when they did flush the system and put Dino oil in it this past summer, the service manager had the service advisor call me to get the proper part numbers for the oil and lubricant. I told him to call SLP. His response was, "What is SOP?". I said, "It is SLP". He had absolutely no clue who SLP was.
Whether or not it is a rare part, it is still GM's responsibility to make sure that their authorized dealers know how to work on with their vehicles properly. It should never be the customers responsibility to teach the dealership about their product. I mean you wouldn't go to a surgeon and tell him how to perform the operation.
Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Originally posted by poSSum:
IMO the auburn option may have been poorly thought through by SLP as it adds very specific requirements to a very small number of cars (correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was the least ordered Y2Y option). I would excuse a dealer for getting it wrong if they hadn't been CLEARLY instructed up front by the customer.
PoSSum, I agree and can see them getting it wrong the first time they see a car with this Auburn in it.
What is completely inexcusable to me is that when informed by the customer as to the correct fluid to use and being given contact information and/or technical information so that they can confirm what the customer is saying....and then ignoring all that....because they know better or are too lazy to act on it....that is just plain incompetent.
Let me give an example of a good experience at a good shop (not a dealer) we recently had. My wife's '94 Vette (LT1 with OptiSpark) recently developed a miss. This was after they had replaced the distributor cap on the OptiCrap, plugs and wires.
The diagnostics said there was a miss on cylinder 7. They checked and found a burnt plug wire. They replaced the burnt wire free of charge. The car then ran fine for a minute and then started to miss again.
They checked everything....timing, fuel injectors, fuel injector wiring, fuel pressure, plug wires, etc and even pulled the valve covers looking for valve train problems. Nothing was found. This was on a Thursday. When I called to see what had happened, they told me the story and I made several suggestions. All my suggstions had been checked, but they actually said they apperciated the input. On Friday, they started from square one and rechecked everything to see if they had missed something. No luck.
Over the week-end, they were on the Internet looking for help on the GM technical help boards and others thar they participate in. All answers, pointed to the OptiCrap. On Monday, it came off and on looking at it closely they found that there was a very small crack or opening in the optical side of the unit. When it cam apart, they found the optical wheel was badly cooroded (this is the fourth OptiCrap on the car and this one only had about 70,000 kms on it). It was causing the engine to run very retarded timing, which resulted in hot manifolds and the engine running hot. The hot manifold is what burnt the plug wires.
They put a new one on and tried to get a credit for the new distributor cap from their supplier, who said NO....probably a dealer . In the end, they spent THREE days tracking down the problem, and they ate most of that labour. Our bill was more than reasonable for the time spent on it. BTW, what GM charges for the OptiCrap is criminal...over $900 CDN
The shop's approach was it was not leaving their shop until they had found the problem and it was fixed. They won't even let my wife drive the car on the week-end because they were concerned about unburnt gasoline in the missing cylinder washing down the cylinder walls.
Throughout this ordeal, they were cordial, professional and always open to talking to me about it and offering suggestions. To the point of saying they did not know what was the problem....yet.
I have never gotten this type of service from a dealer.....and I question why not!
Posted by CaminoLS6 (Member # 2041) on :
Dealer service has always been Gm's Achilles heel, I wouldn't be surprised if it accounts for most of the quality complaints the general public has about GM products. That being said,not all dealers suffer from cranio-rectal insertion. I take my Hawk to a Chevy dealer I have developed a good working relationship with. They do what I ask and pay attention when I tell them something specific about the requirements of the Firehawk. They did the service on my Auburn and the one in my Dad's Hawk-both are performing fine. They even asked to see the SLP supplemental owner's manual so they had it right. If you are in the Philly area, I can tell you that Del Chevy knows how to service the Auburn.If you go,ask for Joe-he's a good guy and fellow car freak.
Posted by twobrats (Member # 2180) on :
If I plan on buying an SS, how do I determine if it has an Auburn Differential or not?
Posted by Y2KSS1363 (Member # 1564) on :
quote:Originally posted by twobrats: If I plan on buying an SS, how do I determine if it has an Auburn Differential or not?
Check the sticker on the passenger door. It will be listed there if originally installed. Problems like these are the reason I excluded the Auburn from my SS order.
Posted by HTWLSS (Member # 117) on :
quote:Originally posted by twobrats: If I plan on buying an SS, how do I determine if it has an Auburn Differential or not?
If it's '98 or newer, look for the Auburn to be listed on the passenger door sticker (SLP content sticker).
'96 & '97 offered the Torsen as the option.
Posted by el ess1 (Member # 1544) on :
quote:Originally posted by Y2KSS1363: Problems like these are the reason I excluded the Auburn from my SS order.
Agreed. IMHO, it surely paid to research the feedback on the Auburn option before I placed my order. That's the only "performance" option I didn't want to chance. While the majority of Auburns are probably working properly, the SLP content on these cars confuse the dealerships a lot and the amount of issues I read about before ordering my car made me sway away from getting it. Luckily, my dealership DOES listen, and tries to do what's necessary to fix it right, so if I did have an Auburn with a problem, they'd do what they could to make it work.
Problem is, the standard Torsen rear causes problems in that when the pinion seal leaks, you run a huge risk of the dealership screwing THAT up on the first try. and getting your rear diff rebuilt about 1K miles later, just as I did.
Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
quote: Problem is, the standard Torsen rear causes problems in that when the pinion seal leaks, you run a huge risk of the dealership screwing THAT up on the first try. and getting your rear diff rebuilt about 1K miles later, just as I did.
Can you elaborate on this one for me. I do not see the linkage between fixing a pinion seal and the Torsen diff.
Just asking for my own knowledge.
Posted by el ess1 (Member # 1544) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bill Mason:
quote: Problem is, the standard Torsen rear causes problems in that when the pinion seal leaks, you run a huge risk of the dealership screwing THAT up on the first try. and getting your rear diff rebuilt about 1K miles later, just as I did.
Can you elaborate on this one for me. I do not see the linkage between fixing a pinion seal and the Torsen diff.
Sure. The GM approved procedure for changing out a leaky pinion seal is basically to remove pinion yoke, then change bad seal, inspect/replace pinion yoke, then retighten the nut to spec plus some miniscule extra torque. Which is ok if they get it EXACT. In my case, they got it a bit too tight and fried the pinion bearings, which ground up, put some metal in the lube and the rest of the bearings dominoed into submission because of the liquid sandpaper. Thus, after the wear became notable to the ear, it was way too late. The dealerships wince at pinion seal replacements for this very reason, it's a crapshoot if they get it perfect with no problems on the first try. And if not, well, you're inside the rear end replacing the crush sleeve and new bearings, something that JeffY said must be done to do it properly. But so far, no problems since the fix about 9K miles ago.
Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
Ah, okay now I understand. I was wondering if there was something special with the Torsen, which I have.
With 171,000 kms on my car, I have had the pinion seal replaced many many times. typically, it has been done with a replacement of the crush sleeve.
However, the last time it was done by a shop I completely trust, and they did it without replacing the crush sleeve. But they marked the pinion nut (shaft) to make sure the pinion nut was re-tightened to the exact same torque. Lots of mileage later and no problems.
Having said that, a friend of mine was not so fortunate and had his pinion bearings come apart as you described.
Posted by poSSum (Member # 119) on :
quote:Originally posted by el ess1: Sure. ..... fried the pinion bearings .... dominoed
Why would this be exclusive to the Torsen? I had a far more violent failure (seized the axle and twisted off the pinion at highway speed) on the auburn after the pinion seal replacement.
Posted by el ess1 (Member # 1544) on :
quote:Originally posted by poSSum:
quote:Originally posted by el ess1: Sure. ..... fried the pinion bearings .... dominoed
Why would this be exclusive to the Torsen? I had a far more violent failure (seized the axle and twisted off the pinion at highway speed) on the auburn after the pinion seal replacement.
It's not and I never said it was, but it's just more prevalent in the standard rears that the seal leaks on more than just a few, so when they do the minimal authorized fix, they run the big risk of screwing it up regardless of who's guts are in the pumpkin. That's more the tech working on it than the rear end. But with the numerous issues not related to the pinion seal, the Auburn looks much more unreliable and definitely not worth the headaches and extra cost, whether or not it actually is. If you like the optional Auburn, it's ok, it's just that you couldn't even give me one.
Posted by JeffY (Member # 120) on :
quote:Originally posted by el ess1:
quote:Originally posted by poSSum:
quote:Originally posted by el ess1: Sure. ..... fried the pinion bearings .... dominoed
Why would this be exclusive to the Torsen? I had a far more violent failure (seized the axle and twisted off the pinion at highway speed) on the auburn after the pinion seal replacement.
It's not and I never said it was, but it's just more prevalent in the standard rears that the seal leaks on more than just a few, so when they do the minimal authorized fix, they run the big risk of screwing it up regardless of who's guts are in the pumpkin. That's more the tech working on it than the rear end. But with the numerous issues not related to the pinion seal, the Auburn looks much more unreliable and definitely not worth the headaches and extra cost, whether or not it actually is. If you like the optional Auburn, it's ok, it's just that you couldn't even give me one.
The Auburn is just as reliable as the Torsen. They both went thru the same exact GM durability tests which included all kinds of abuse testing.
Posted by ss_rs_z (Member # 1888) on :
Man I am sorry to hear about the problem with the Auburn. I ordered my SS with it and now wish I hadn't.
I wonder what I am in for? Posted by Mike2001SS (Member # 2088) on :
quote:Originally posted by ss_rs_z: Man I am sorry to hear about the problem with the Auburn. I ordered my SS with it and now wish I hadn't.
I wonder what I am in for?
Ken I have had 5 f-bodys with the Torsen and the last 2 SS's I ordered have the auburn. 2 reasons I got the auburn's in the last 2 cars was I wanted them to have everyone of SLP's opts. on them and the other was I was told the auburn was better for auto-x than the torsen. Only one of the 2001's has been a daily driver since new and it now has 60,000 miles on it with not alot but some auto-x running and several trips down the strip with sticky enough tires to get a 1.74 60ft and with 410 rwhp it is still doing good no trouble as yet. I am sure you do not treat yours as hard so don't worry about the auburn
Posted by ss_rs_z (Member # 1888) on :
Thanks Mike. I feel alot better now. Was getting a little worried and I did as you said. I wanted to get as much on my SS also. And as you said I don't treat my baby hard at all. Just love ther dern thing. Posted by Mike2001SS (Member # 2088) on :
quote:Originally posted by ss_rs_z: Thanks Mike. I feel alot better now. Was getting a little worried and I did as you said. I wanted to get as much on my SS also. And as you said I don't treat my baby hard at all. Just love ther dern thing.
You're welcome and as it turned out I have the only SOM SS vert with neutral leather and neutral top with every SLP opt. right down to the portfolio ordered in 2001 with a M6 trans
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Was getting a little worried and I did as you said. I wanted to get as much on my SS also. And as you said I don't treat my baby hard at all. Just love ther dern thing. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
