New Mustang (GT) and demise of the F-Car. Read on... (from Hot Rods website..used with permission, yeah right)
"...the '05 Mustang GT will feature a 300hp base 4.6L V-8. In order to reach that figure, engineers working on the new engine dug deeply into Ford's technology grab bag."
(They had to dig deep, what the hell?)
(Now to the FBod comment)
As the Mustang prepares to celebrate its 40th birthday on April 17, we suspect it's hard for members of the Mustang development team to refrain from kicking dirt on the carcass of GM's now dead F-car, despite their official victory in the 35-year-long ponycar war. While it's hard to pinpoint the exact cause of the GM ponycar's demise, we'd agree with the consensus among the folks we spoke with at Ford that general impracticality as an everyday driver was the ultimate downfall of the last-generation Camaro and Firebird, despite their strong performance advantage over the Mustang. In the last few years of head-to-head sales competition, with Mustang sales hovering around 130,000 units annually, Ford's ponycar was outselling the combined Camaro/Firebird sales of about 70,000 by nearly a two-to-one margin.
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
All probably true, unfortunately..........
As far as their horsepower numbers go, I guess we will have to wait and see how the 05 Stang stacks up against an 02 F-Body. Chances are it will probably be a toss up. Posted by 380SS (Member # 2078) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS_CarGuy: All probably true, unfortunately..........
As far as their horsepower numbers go, I guess we will have to wait and see how the 05 Stang stacks up against an 02 F-Body. Chances are it will probably be a toss up.
Well as horsepower numbers go "presently" they don't stack up at all. 02 SS w/ 325 vs. 05 GT @ 300
Prediction, the 07 Camaro will have the (decompressed) LS-2 engine.
Posted by JohnS (Member # 1073) on :
Yes sir! The 4th gen f-bod has a cramped cockpit, '70's era suspension, and a hump on the passenger floor. But you've got to admit it has one hellava engine, and we all know it has the best owners and drivers. Both f-bod's don't look too bad either. Posted by SteelHorse (Member # 1725) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS_CarGuy: All probably true, unfortunately..........
As far as their horsepower numbers go, I guess we will have to wait and see how the 05 Stang stacks up against an 02 F-Body. Chances are it will probably be a toss up.
I agree the SS is a lousy everyday driver. Great motor and great looks aside. The mustang has a trunk. Easier entry/exit. Killer exhaust note and don't feel to bad 0 to 60.
I'm betting those 300 horse cars will run better than you guys are giving it credit for.
[ 15. January 2004, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: SteelHorse ]
Posted by chrisL (Member # 97) on :
we may have to lay low for now, but me thinks we havent heard the last word on this matter from GM yet. Posted by ss_rs_z (Member # 1888) on :
quote:Originally posted by 380SS: New Mustang (GT) and demise of the F-Car. Read on... (from Hot Rods website..used with permission, yeah right)
"...the '05 Mustang GT will feature a 300hp base 4.6L V-8. In order to reach that figure, engineers working on the new engine dug deeply into Ford's technology grab bag."
(They had to dig deep, what the hell?)
(Now to the FBod comment)
As the Mustang prepares to celebrate its 40th birthday on April 17, we suspect it's hard for members of the Mustang development team to refrain from kicking dirt on the carcass of GM's now dead F-car, despite their official victory in the 35-year-long ponycar war. While it's hard to pinpoint the exact cause of the GM ponycar's demise, we'd agree with the consensus among the folks we spoke with at Ford that general impracticality as an everyday driver was the ultimate downfall of the last-generation Camaro and Firebird, despite their strong performance advantage over the Mustang. In the last few years of head-to-head sales competition, with Mustang sales hovering around 130,000 units annually, Ford's ponycar was outselling the combined Camaro/Firebird sales of about 70,000 by nearly a two-to-one margin.
Let them gloat now because they WILL eat those words when the Camaro comes back.
Posted by Scott Chab (Member # 174) on :
quote:Originally posted by 380SS: New Mustang (GT) and demise of the F-Car. Read on... (from Hot Rods website..used with permission, yeah right)
"...the '05 Mustang GT will feature a 300hp base 4.6L V-8. In order to reach that figure, engineers working on the new engine dug deeply into Ford's technology grab bag."
(They had to dig deep, what the hell?)
(Now to the FBod comment)
As the Mustang prepares to celebrate its 40th birthday on April 17, we suspect it's hard for members of the Mustang development team to refrain from kicking dirt on the carcass of GM's now dead F-car, despite their official victory in the 35-year-long ponycar war. While it's hard to pinpoint the exact cause of the GM ponycar's demise, we'd agree with the consensus among the folks we spoke with at Ford that general impracticality as an everyday driver was the ultimate downfall of the last-generation Camaro and Firebird, despite their strong performance advantage over the Mustang. In the last few years of head-to-head sales competition, with Mustang sales hovering around 130,000 units annually, Ford's ponycar was outselling the combined Camaro/Firebird sales of about 70,000 by nearly a two-to-one margin.
300hp from a 4.6L ain't too shabby... in fact, it's putting out more HP per liter than a 345hp SLP f-body.
Being an ex-Mustang owner, I have to agree with the comments as far as easier entry/exit and a better overall seating position for a daily driver... not to mention Mustang speed parts are a lot cheaper than they are for the f-body. (I picked up a Mustang magazine the other day and it was thicker than the Summit catalog I get because there are sooooo many distributors for Stang parts. High supply = competitive prices)
I think it's great that Ford is continuing to evolve the Mustang... they might just give the other manufacturers the nudge they need to come out with some competition.
Posted by RagSS (Member # 1127) on :
quote: ...they might just give the other manufacturers the nudge they need to come out with some competition
1967 all over again... history repeats itself. Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
Yes...........like Chrysler teasing everyone at the Detroit Auto Show with a Supercharged Viper powered Cuda'.........check out the pictures H E R E.
This car looks A W E S O M E ! ! !
[ 16. January 2004, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: SS_CarGuy ]
Posted by DanPazich (Member # 1352) on :
Most of what was said in that article is true...Just give Gm some time to regroup. We will dominate once more.
300hp?? That's it??
Hell, GM is getting 275hp out of the Inline 6 used in the Trailblazer...I wouldn't mind seeign that in the BASE camaro for the V6 version!!! Posted by KevinA (Member # 139) on :
since I"m a car lover, and not just a GM lover, I say Kudo's to Ford.
Obviously Ford has been doing something right the past few years since the Stang is still in production.
When I bought my Hawk, I wanted sheer performance and I have a daily driver. If I was going to have a muscle car for my daily driver, I would have opted for a Stang because of the entry/exit/trunk space.
Just my humble .02 worth from a guy who is NOT even close to being brand loyal.
Posted by TimeLord (Member # 1389) on :
Article is TRUE,,,,,,,
Car is a 'CUDA !!
See the Crossfire convertible????
Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
My hat is off to Ford for staying in the pony car market and actually putting some money into the Mustang to keep it current.
However, I have not and will not buy a Mustang. My Trans Am is a daily year round driver and I bought it over a Mustang becasue I consider GMs to be better built cars, with longetivity (i,e,: corrosion protection) built right into the car. IMHO, Ford has a terrible track record in this regard.
Believe it or not, I find the Firebird's daily functionality to be just fine....for me. It's amazing what that back hatch will swallow.
I do not consider myself brand loyal, which is to say I will only buy GM....even if they do not have a product that really suits me. I typically have bought cars (and every last one of them has been either sports cars or two door coupes) that I can feel passionately about.
Over the years, this means I have bought cars (15+) from a lot of different manufacturers and typically only once from each manufacturer....with one exception.
That exception is GM (Vega GT, Camaro Z28, Corvette and Firebird). Hhhhhmmm makes me wonder what we will be buying next. Posted by twobratSS (Member # 2180) on :
I'm sorry...but the new '05 Mustangs aren't that attractive to me. I've also showed my students some pics of it, and they (generally) do not like the looks of it. Of course, that's 14 - 17 year olds. Do you think Ford is not feeling any pressure from the F-Body anymore, so they don't feel as though they need to put as much into the 'Stang anymore, just keep it on the market to draw in all those that want a Ponycar? Give me our 345 hp SS anyday...We absolutely LOVE IT!
Posted by Scott Chab (Member # 174) on :
quote:Originally posted by twobratSS: Do you think Ford is not feeling any pressure from the F-Body anymore, so they don't feel as though they need to put as much into the 'Stang anymore, just keep it on the market to draw in all those that want a Ponycar?
If that was true, why would they sink all that money into totally redesigning the car for '05??
Posted by TimeLord (Member # 1389) on :
When the F-Body appeared it had 275HP from the Top of the line Z28 [which was incredible and amazing etc etc]and when it disappeared it had 305 or 315 from the Z28 right??
SS/Hawk had 335 or 345 right,Cobra the same year had 390 from their S/C 4.6 right.
You can walk into Ford and get a Saleen or a Rousch with a guaranty right,with more than 400HP.
Ford still make the Mustang ,THEY WIN !!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by FirstLast (Member # 2010) on :
1) Bill Ford personally a major proponent. No top down commitment from GM - just worrisome liability jitters about impending door requirements and various undetermined issues like throttle sticking, rear end issues. 2) Priced down from GM, and attractive to wide cross section. Looks like a GM Sport sedan, but more fun. 3) SLP will kick the new Stang with their Judge, just wait, and sooner than the Camaro. 4) GM x'd the Fbody years ago in long range plans. And they did not change from that plan. Big corporations are very stodgy and slow to steer. Look at Nissan, Mazda 3 and new RX8, a hot Accura announced at Detroit auto show - mid engine Indy race bred. Fun quick ricers that Ford can beat with some tricks. Good for them.
Posted by BCKNBLK (Member # 2207) on :
Well, I JUST got back from the Motor Trend auto show here in Baltimore and they had the ACTUAL production Mustang GT that is on the cover of Hot Rod and let me tell you it looks UNREAL!! Jess and I were amazed at the job Ford did with this new car. The dash board has an option where you can change the color of the interior lighting to almost 100 different colors...not to mention the interior is totally retro as well! Thie car was the BOMB at the auto show! We could barely get close enough to see it because it always had a huge crowd around it...my prediction is it is going to SELL like crazy...over at the GTO display we never saw more than 4 or 5 people looking at it at the same time and no one was overly impressed..I stood there for quite a while listening to people's comments and the general consensus was the performance was great but the design and looks didn't do much for them. I thought Ford was going to have the concept Mustang but we were very surprised that they had a production model GT there. Jessica absolutely LOVES the car and so do I. 300hp or not it's still a great car and Jess's 02 has had NO problems at all in the time we've owned it. Per the Ford rep there the Mach 1 and Cobra will be out in 06 with a rumor of the Cobra going back to the 5.0L...regardless of opinions this car is going to sell and after all that is the ultimate goal of making a car...to make $$ and sell a lot of them and the Mustang has done just that and will continue to do so...cheers!!
Posted by chrisL (Member # 97) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS_CarGuy: Yes...........like Chrysler teasing everyone at the Detroit Auto Show with a Supercharged Viper powered Cuda'.........check out the pictures H E R E.
This car looks A W E S O M E ! ! !
That car looks an awful lot like my buddy's. V10 is trick, but I'll take the 610 flywheel hp 426hemi in my buddy's car thank you!
Posted by DanA_F99_1977 (Member # 118) on :
I am very happy to see Ford continuing the Mustang. I really like it. I am happy to see all the car companies going after both performance and practicality. The more they battle it out and continue to raise the bar, the better cars we get to buy and drive regardless of who makes them. I am just personally attached to my F-Body and even though the interior is really only for two people, it gets me down the quarter mile in the 13's AND gets me around a road course pretty well AND gets me 30 MPG when I cruise easy on the highway. You can't say that about any of the original cars that we are copying today. If the car companies can capture the passion of those cars and give me such a reliable, comfortable car, the I am a happy guy!!
I can't wait for the next Camaro!!
Posted by Harry P (Member # 533) on :
Not to beat a dead "horse", my $0.02...
First, we all have to agree that with Corvette, GM is at a disadvantage when comparing the sales of the Camaro vs. those of with the Mustang. Mustang is Ford's premier sports/muscle car... GM's is Corvette, not Camaro. There are a certain number of buyers that can afford a Corvette, but would buy a Camaro if the 'vette wasn't produced. My thought is that this is probably not a significant number, but it has to represent something since brand-loyal GM heads in the market for muscle will buy the best GM has to offer... if Corvettes aren't available, Camaro's would be a next logical choice. Ford doesn't have this market dynamic.
Second, as someone stated, GM was eager to axe the f-body as early as the mid-1980's. I recall the Beretta was to be the FWD replacement, but back then, annual Camaro sales were still in the 200k ballpark, so GM couldn't help but continue to build what sold, always upping the ante against Mustang (not to mention poor sales of the now defunct Beretta).
Third, and most importantly, lack of advertising sealed the f-body's fate. Sales declined throughout the 90's because the f-body was advertised on the showroom floor only. How many Eclipse & Mustang commercials have you seen/do you see? While blue-oval folks believe it had something to do with the impracticality of the Camaro, in truth it was due to poor advertising. Lack of advertising killed the f-body, plain and simple.
When I took delivery of the SS in May '00, friends and family approached me and asked what kind of car it was (this coming from people who always knew me as a Camaro driver). They had no idea what a new Camaro looked like.
There was only one national GM ad campaign for the Camaro that I ever remember... the fourth gen adds ran their first year, with babes in the red convertible and Hendrix' "Let me stand next to your fire" wailing.
People won't buy what they don't know is out there.
Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
Any body that was at the Detroit auto show and took time to look at the Mustang might have noticed the lisence plate ......
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