NO CAMARO, FIREBIRD REVIVAL - Eighteen months after General Motors killed the Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird, speculation continues that GM will revive the nameplates - perhaps on the Zeta rear-drive architecture being developed in Australia. Not a chance, says Vice Chairman Bob Lutz. And for a simple reason. During negotiations to close the Ste. Therese, Quebec, plant that made the rwd sports coupes, GM pledged to the Canadian Auto Workers that it would not make them elsewhere. Lutz says reviving the pony cars would be an appealing notion. But, he adds, "A deal's a deal."
[ 12. February 2004, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: MM ]
Posted by KurtK (Member # 1779) on :
I'm sure that all the Camero owners buying some of the next-gen Mustangs will remember this.
Posted by MM (Member # 1247) on :
quote:Originally posted by KurtK: I'm sure that all the Camero owners buying some of the next-gen Mustangs will remember this.
Trust me I'm a GM guy and I think the new rustang is pretty cool.... but I don't think Automotive News is reporting the whole story... at least not what I have heard... so keep the faith!
Posted by SVT THIS (Member # 1352) on :
C-A-M-A-R-O
Anyways...I dont beleive it. I know there wil be another Camaro, or at least affordable RWD sport car. I think the Firebird is dead, with the GTO in place. Now when 2007 rolls along and there is no Camaro, then maybe I'll believe it. My hopes are high! Posted by ss_rs_z (Member # 1888) on :
I don't believe it at all. When Mr. Settlemire says that then I will believe it. Until then I don't. Posted by poSSum (Member # 119) on :
A deals a deal ...and if a deal says "3 years" it's 3 years.
Like the others, if we don't see a 40th anniversary Camaro then I'll believe it's dead.
Regardless, I'm sure there will be plenty of cool Zeta based stuff to chose from.
Posted by JeffY (Member # 120) on :
who cares what its called as long as it does what you want.
Posted by HTWLSS (Member # 117) on :
quote:Originally posted by JeffY: who cares what its called as long as it does what you want.
Posted by mattp (Member # 2140) on :
to me all that says is that its going to be made in Canada, not australia Posted by MM (Member # 1247) on :
quote:Originally posted by HTWLSS:
quote:Originally posted by JeffY: who cares what its called as long as it does what you want.
Posted by wickman43 (Member # 2003) on :
quote:Originally posted by KurtK: I'm sure that all the Camero owners buying some of the next-gen Mustangs will remember this.
Like me! Its too bad, why did they have to go and make a promise like that? I really like the new Mustang and will have a white GT parked next to my SS this fall. Posted by Mark IXZD 150 (Member # 235) on :
There's a time limit to the agreement. After that GM can build the Camaro wherever they want. Posted by Doug 97SS #1499 (Member # 100) on :
I patiently wait for the New Chevelle to make its presence so I can have one to park next to my Camaro. Posted by POFOMOCO (Member # 2193) on :
I can see into the future....
SO MANY CHOICES - 40th Camaro??, C6 Corvette Z06??, NextGen Mustang Cobra??, GTO??, Chevelle??...So little time (and Garage Space)
Either way, I am sure I will have a ton of fun picking the next pofomoco!!!!
Pofomoco Posted by LT14SHOW (Member # 2187) on :
Check out the new Chevelle SS in Chevy High Performance. It looks like the GTO and the GTO looks like a Cavilier(SP) !!!
Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
quote:Originally posted by KurtK: I'm sure that all the Camero owners buying some of the next-gen Mustangs will remember this.
You spelled Camaro wrong.
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
The only thing that gripes me is we still have no "official" word from GM on the fate of the Camaro. We have Lutz dropping tidbits here and there and we have Scott telling us to keep the faith. I just wish GM would come out with a press release announcing it permanent demise or it's rebirth (and give us a timeframe.....puleeeeeze) in the future.
Posted by twobratSS (Member # 2180) on :
I sure wish the Fbodfather would make a ruling on this.........
Posted by Harry P (Member # 533) on :
There may well be no new Camaro in the next several years, but mind you, the Camaro and Firebird nameplates, in terms of marketing, are two of the most recognized in the performance automotive world. It will come back *some* day. Just like GTO and 300M. Let's just hope it doesn't take as long as it took for the return of those models.
[ 13. February 2004, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Harry P ]
Posted by 2K1SunsetSS (Member # 854) on :
That "deal" runs out Sept next year. Posted by 01ss87iroc (Member # 1763) on :
quote:Originally posted by MM:
quote:Originally posted by HTWLSS:
quote:Originally posted by JeffY: who cares what its called as long as it does what you want.
But I think fbodfather has dropped enough hints for me to believe that the Camaro will be back... Posted by KurtK (Member # 1779) on :
My take is that GM needed to have the product line down for a specific period of time in order to meet contractual obligations with the Canadian auto workers (and possibly PQ)to keep from being forced to reopen the exisiting plant or to pay some amount of $$$'s.
In the time between the 2002 CamAro and whenever, GM may/will need to balance the trading of whatever savings from the plant closure with owners/buyers migrating to the Mustang and other performance vehicles. Brand loyalty is hard enough to keep with existing lines, let alone to re-obtain.
Remember that GM did kill the Corvette at one time, however they saw the light and changed their collective mind. The f-body unfortunately did not get the same reprieve.
JeffY is correct- the product name doesn't really make a difference, but in the same line of thought, neither does the manufacturer.
Posted by wild childs SS (Member # 2146) on :
if I can there will be a GTO in my garage in two plus years. Posted by 97 SS LT1 (Member # 136) on :
Well, my opinion is, only time will tell. We shall see.
Posted by JeffY (Member # 120) on :
quote:Originally posted by KurtK: My take is that GM needed to have the product line down for a specific period of time in order to meet contractual obligations with the Canadian auto workers (and possibly PQ)to keep from being forced to reopen the exisiting plant or to pay some amount of $$$'s.
In the time between the 2002 CamAro and whenever, GM may/will need to balance the trading of whatever savings from the plant closure with owners/buyers migrating to the Mustang and other performance vehicles. Brand loyalty is hard enough to keep with existing lines, let alone to re-obtain.
Remember that GM did kill the Corvette at one time, however they saw the light and changed their collective mind. The f-body unfortunately did not get the same reprieve.
JeffY is correct- the product name doesn't really make a difference, but in the same line of thought, neither does the manufacturer.
1. Despite what everyone has said, I never heard of any deal with the CAW - the car was killed off before Lutz ever came back to GM. 2. The Vette was never cancelled, unless you mean when Zora came on board.
Posted by KurtK (Member # 1779) on :
I believe it was in 1992 Chevy announced there would be no more Covettes after 1996, the planned end of the C4. Also, the C4 was already extended 1 year from '95 to '96.
Even the Wall Street Journal carried the news- the same article also pointed out the C4 Corvette had the one of the highest labor contents for GM.
It was at that point I decided to get a Vette- kinda the the same with the SS.
Obvioulsly, the great minds at GM recanted the death warrant and the C5 (and now C6) were born Posted by JeffY (Member # 120) on :
quote:Originally posted by KurtK: I believe it was in 1992 Chevy announced there would be no more Covettes after 1996, the planned end of the C4. Also, the C4 was already extended 1 year from '95 to '96.
Even the Wall Street Journal carried the news- the same article also pointed out the C4 Corvette had the one of the highest labor contents for GM.
It was at that point I decided to get a Vette- kinda the the same with the SS.
Obvioulsly, the great minds at GM recanted the death warrant and the C5 (and now C6) were born
Don't know where you ever heard that story from but it certainly isn't true. I should know! I was the C4 Program Manager. Read " All Corvettes Are Red". Its the story of the C5. The original C5 was supposed to come out as a '93 but was delayed and delayed. Planning for it started in the mid 80's.
Posted by Doug Harden (Member # 1796) on :
quote:Originally posted by JeffY: 1. Despite what everyone has said, I never heard of any deal with the CAW - the car was killed off before Lutz ever came back to GM.
This is what GM is afraid of...along with a major strike by the CAW if they anger them by violating the terms in which they were given the $$.
[ 13. February 2004, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Doug Harden ]
Posted by JeffY (Member # 120) on :
Doug - So? I still don't see any deal in there about not building f-cars (Camaro/Firebird) anywhere else. That was what being discussed.
The government of Quebec ( not Canada) gave GM the tax breaks. That kept things going as long as it could. GM still didn't make a deal with anyone to never build Camaros again, anywhere. GM has lots of plants in Oshawa-Canada still likes GM.
[ 13. February 2004, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: JeffY ]
Posted by Doug Harden (Member # 1796) on :
JeffY,
I know you're more of an insider than I'll ever be, but I've heard this from too many sources.....and now Bob Lutz just confirmed it.
I'd love to believe that Bob is just blowing smoke, but consider these comments....in no particular order:
--Lutz tells the media that there is a Camaro in the future.....and then retracts it about two weeks later.
--Ritter tells several journalists and dealers that there is a future Camaro....and then retracts the statement about 20 days later.
--Reuss tells Automotive News that his group is working on a Camaro replacement....and then denies it about a week and a half later.
--Moss talks about the next gen Camaro...and then denies it later.
--Red Planet tells people that he cannot talk about the 5th gen....yet no-one believes him....
There's something here....has to be....GM didn't just GIVE Ford the entire Pony Car market.....
[ 13. February 2004, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: Doug Harden ]
Posted by JeffY (Member # 120) on :
Hey - don't get me wrong-I'm an outsider now, just like everyone else. I know what happened in the past, but I know zip about the future-and as a supplier, if I knew anything and said anything, I'd get fired. I read the tea leaves just like everyone else. Sometimes 2 + 2 =4 and sometimes its 3.95 or 4.10.I've seen GM change their mind 5 times in a day. I'd bet that there will be a Camaro somehwre in the future. Where and when and what- I don't have a clue. All I know, is that all of a sudden, I think DCX has really nice cars! The 300C is really sweet.
Posted by Doug Harden (Member # 1796) on :
quote:Originally posted by JeffY: ......All I know, is that all of a sudden, I think DCX has really nice cars! The 300C is really sweet.
That thing have a Hemi? Posted by Doug Harden (Member # 1796) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug 97SS #1499: I patiently wait for the New Chevelle to make its presence so I can have one to park next to my Camaro.
Ditto! Posted by JohnS (Member # 1073) on :
quote:Originally posted by MM: Not a chance, says Vice Chairman Bob Lutz. .... During negotiations to close the Ste. Therese, Quebec, .... GM pledged to the Canadian Auto Workers that it would not make them elsewhere. "
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