My wife and my daughter were going to make a trip out to the new house today to show Kathy's mom.She called the realtor/home owner and the realtor said that she did not have the keys to the house.(1st red flag and the house does have a lock box with the key). So my wife, daughter and my mother inlaw all went for a ride to see the house.My mother inlaw has never seen the house so this was suppored to be an exciting event. I stayed home and washed the vehicles,cleaned the garage and changed the oil on the GMC and the Cadillac. When they arrived to look at the house there was a bag of garbage on the porch...strange! They looked inside and found all of the living room carpet and the dining room and kitchen floor ripped up.There was some drywall missing from the living room ceiling. My wife called the realtor/home owner and asked what in the heck is going on with the house.The realtor drove out there to meet my wife. Never did she mention that there was a major problem in the house in the last few days.Kathy was told that the main bathroom up stairs toliet had overflowed. All of the flooring in the up stair bathroom was ruined as well as the plywood floor underneath. Maybe even some more drywall damage.Kathy was told that the toilet just happened to start on its own and no one had used it. The realtor also mentioned the plumbing for this toilet was plugged and a professional plumber had snaked it out.How did that happen since it is all new and no one has ever lived in this house? I never heard of a toilet that ran on its own for no reason but my mother inlaw did say that happened one time in her house after it was built.Now the problem if the wet drywall and lumber does not get totally dried and black mold starts a year or two after I am in the house.I wonder what the plywood looks like under the carpet and the 2X4's in the walls.The realtor already called her insurance company and there are many huge fans turned on to try and dry it out.What really ticks me off is that the realtor/homeowner was not going to say anything to us.My wife did also hear that the realtor/homeowner was notified of the problem by another realtor from her office that was showing my house after I asked when I put the cash down payment on it that it not be shown to any more people and she agreed.Now she broke any trust I had in her.I should not have dropped the asking price on my current house by $10,000 either, after the realtor thought we should. I think that was just to sell ours quicker so we could close on the new house so the realtor/homeowner would not have to continue making house payments on that new house.What can I do? If I chose to fire her,and not buy the new house, I will loose my down payment cash and have to pay her the standard 5% realtor fee. Did I mention I feel like crap! Sorry this is so long,but this house was going to be the last house I ever own and our 1st brand new one and it is a lot of money.Thanks!
[ 27. March 2004, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: 2002Z4CSS ]
Posted by blkragss02 (Member # 1801) on :
Wow Greg I don't think that is very good that they are trying to hide things from you. A home is the single largest purchase that you will ever make. Make sure everything is on the up and up. I personally would speak to an attorney and get some advice on the course of action you should take in this adventure.
Posted by Cavy Dan (Member # 1352) on :
Wow Greg! Really sorry to hear news like that...thats aweful, and even though you dont wanna think it..it really does sound a bit suspicious. I really cant tell you opions or what I woudl do becasue i'm only 22 with no expience besides some clases, but I AM taking a class right now which is Modern Real Estate Practice. My professor is a good friend and is an attorney and can speak with him and see fi he has any suggestions for you. Maybe others will be able to help you (they always do!) Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cavy Dan: Wow Greg! Really sorry to hear news like that...thats aweful, and even though you dont wanna think it..it really does sound a bit suspicious. I really cant tell you opions or what I woudl do becasue i'm only 22 with no expience besides some clases, but I AM taking a class right now which is Modern Real Estate Practice. My professor is a good friend and is an attorney and can speak with him and see fi he has any suggestions for you. Maybe others will be able to help you (they always do!)
Dan, I would appreciate any feedback you can get.I really don't want to resort to hiring an attorney and don't really have the money for one either.
Posted by ss_rs_z (Member # 1888) on :
Greg I am really sorry to hear what you are going through at this moment. This sounds very strange to me and I agree about seeing an attorney about this. There is no reson why you should lose your down payment because of a realtor who could have been pulling something. I hope everything works out for you and Kathy.
Posted by HotWheelSS aka HTWLSS (Member # 117) on :
Greg, You haven't signed final papers for the house yet, have you? If there's only a deposit down on it, isn't the Real Estate Agent/Homeowner bound to disclosure laws? Can the damage and subsequent repair attempt devalue the house? If you decide not to get the house, I don't think you owe her a thing and should be entitled to full refund and pay no commission due to her lack of disclosure/notification of a problem. Also, the breach of trust and showing the house to someone else while you have money down on it and not knowing where the key is seems to show lack of integrity on her part. If I were you, I'd call her out on her dishonesty and be willing to call the licensing authority and an attorney to understand your rights, so you can move on to another house if you choose, without being out of your deposit and 5%. Attorneys usually are willing to do a free consultation, so it might not hurt to call around or do some real estate licensing law homework in your state. Best of luck! We're pulling for ya.
[ 27. March 2004, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: HotWheelSS aka HTWLSS ]
Posted by Cavy Dan (Member # 1352) on :
quote:Originally posted by 2002Z4CSS:
quote:Originally posted by Cavy Dan: Wow Greg! Really sorry to hear news like that...thats aweful, and even though you dont wanna think it..it really does sound a bit suspicious. I really cant tell you opions or what I woudl do becasue i'm only 22 with no expience besides some clases, but I AM taking a class right now which is Modern Real Estate Practice. My professor is a good friend and is an attorney and can speak with him and see fi he has any suggestions for you. Maybe others will be able to help you (they always do!)
Dan, I would appreciate any feedback you can get.I really don't want to resort to hiring an attorney and don't really have the money for one either.
My mom and grandparents are in the business...i'll pss it along to them as well...I'll do anything i can do to help ya!
Posted by 1-35 anniverasy LE (Member # 2040) on :
greg things like this do happen ,if it is dried out completely there should be no problem, should be open to air for a COUPLE OF WEEKS WITH FURNACE AND FANS , after dry check flooring areas to make sure to handle any squeeks that might appear from plywood swelling , i would screw plywood down in all areas . we live here in the northwest washinton area and rarely is there a house that gets built that doesnt get drenched before the roof goes on .sheetrock can be repaired easily ,a squeeky floor is probably the only thing that would show down the road .[hence screws ] plywood under tile should be replaced likely, can effect tile cracks in joints after drying out. i am in the constructin field . good luck Posted by Hawkeye (Member # 88) on :
If it was clean water, and not running for a long time it should be o.k. We get lots of water damage claims, and if it dried properly you won't have any trouble. I would have a clause added to your final contract that should any mold develop due to the water damage that the realtor will be held responsible.
As for showing the home. It may just as a sample of what she can build for others. I would talk to her face to face so you can guage her reaction, but I would tell her that you are very disappointed in what has transpired.
I know you had your heart set on this property.
Does your offer give you one final inspection before closing? If so, I would hire a professional, insured, home inspector. Here it costs about $200 to have your home inspected. We did - it gave us peace of mind. If he misses something that later gives you trouble you have recourse against them as well.
My thoughts.
[ 27. March 2004, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: Hawkeye ]
Posted by Big A (Member # 1761) on :
Sorry to hear about the new house. I would recommend at least a consultation with a REALTY lawyer. A REALTY lawyer is specialized in real estate. There could be breech of contract on the realtors part. The only problem, which is a big one, is that realtors try to have dealings with ALL other lawyers in your area. This means there would be a conflict of interest if the lawyer represented you, which they won’t. I found this out the hard way.
Posted by MY02SSLE (Member # 2178) on :
Greg, WOW I can't believe this happened. I know how happy you were about this house, and I think it is wrong that your agent didn't contact you about this. It is horrible how you found out. I would have to agree with everyone else on this board, and say you should talk to a laywer. I think your agent should pay for an inspection, you shouldn't have to! I would be totally pissed if I were you. You should talk to someone who knows about how black mold forms to find out if you are in danger. Then weigh the facts to determine if you still want the house. We will talk about it tomorrow! Call me!
Posted by 35th_camaro_ss (Member # 1738) on :
Greg, sorry to hear this, I would be sick just thinking of the stresses also...I would definately have a talk with the realtor "in person" and express your concerns and how you were so sure this was a great house and all and now things arent looking so perfect anymore and if they have any conscience at all, they should be very nice to you and assure you it be fixed properly and see if they can offer a price break to help aid your stresses and if not a lower price, maybe some upgrades to the house that you would like at no extra cost of coarse...I believe being honest and aproach face to face, they are put on the spot so to speak...its harder for them to be rude in person to you...if nothing can be done in this aproach, it is clear they are not in it for you and you should talk to an attourney (first visit free) and see how they can help either to get price lowered or get your money back whichever your heart tells you to do....dont get pressured into something you dont like or understand as you will never fully enjoy it. just my .02 Al
[ 27. March 2004, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: 35th_camaro_ss ]
Posted by vargod (Member # 1116) on :
I'm going to add something here,it may not be what you want to hear, but its the other side. I verl close friend of our went away on vacation for one week. When they got back they noticed that they had water on the floor. They called their Insurance company they were told that it may not be cover under their policy. They were told to look for the problem. Well after a week of looking they found the problem. A water line coming out of their hot water system burst and had been running water for aleast a week. The Insurance company came out and started looking. They found mold everywhere and were told they could not live in the house until they got the mold out. That was 9 months ago. They just started putting the walls back up this week. They had fans running for 4 straight months to try and dry it out, but everytime they thought they had it done they found more. They stripped the house to the studs, they even replaced the windows. The insurance company even paid to have all of the clothes dry cleaned to get the mold out to the tune of $14K. As of right now the total cost to make the house habitial is over $400k. The house was only worth about $250k, but the Insurance company did not want to demolish and rebuild.
I'm telling you this because you need to make sure that ALL of the mold is out of the house and that the "problem" has been fixed. I agree with HTWLSS, talk to an attorney to find out what your options are. Even if it cost you $200, its money well spent. I hope this works out for you.
Posted by sscamaro (Member # 1330) on :
Sorry to hear of your problem. Things like this can sure burst you bubble. This was suppose to be a happy thing for you and Kathy,not all these problems.
Posted by Opie (Member # 2007) on :
I would highly recommend consulting with an attorney. You would not have to hire him/her just to talk about your options. I do know if there was a defect in the house and the owner and/or the real estate agent knew about it and hid or refused to acknowledge it, you would have legal rights to possible termination of contract without penalties. You may also have legal recourse / action against both the home owner and real estate agent.
You should have been notified as soon as problem was discovered, either before damage if they knew or at least after the damage occurred. It is hard to say what the future problems could be. There could be no problems, just new drywall and new carpet. But there could be some serious construction (damage) issues, electrical, structure, ect., and worse potental health issues.
Later today I will run this by a good friend of mine, don't like to admit it but a couple very good friends of mine are sharks. I'll see what he has to say he does real estate all the time and I am sure he has handled similar issues. Let you know what he thinks.
Take your time on this and study all your options before you make a decision. I hope everything works out for you. I would HATE to be put in this type of situation. I have been very lucky in all my real estate transactions, but I have heard of nightmares, such as yours.
Posted by poSSum (Member # 119) on :
I think you've received some pretty good advice. The agreement you've signed and Michigan law will probably dictate your rights and options.
I would delist your house while you are investigating the options and concur that you get a lawyer to look it over. That will be a small price to pay for a little more peace of mind regardless of how it settles out.
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
Greg..............who is the current owner? Who was the builder? Is the builder involved in the cleanup? If so, talk to the builder and owner and ask a lot of questions. Common sense will take you a long way in determining if repairs are being done properly. And ask to speak to the insurance agent also to question their course of action on the repairs.
When a house is being constructed, it will usuually get rained on a number of times before they can get it under roof. All of the exposed lumber can take this type of soaking so don't panic yet about the water damage. Now, with that being said, when you put up insulation, drywall, carpeting and tile you have other things to worry about......none of that stuff should get wet. All of the affected areas need that type material removed so the wood can be exposed and dry out(sounds like they did that....but double check and ask a lot of questions). Once it is dry, check for warping or uneveness. Then they can redo the areas affected. This brings up another point.....the quality of the repair work. You definitely want to ask a lot of questions on this and you want some GUARANTEES that the work will be done right and to your satisfaction and you will have no further problems. You can get an attorney involved if you want to, but I would wait until you can get the questions I mentioned above answered. Again, your own common sense will tell you if the attorney is necessary.
I hope this all works out well for you.
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
One more thing Greg........if you can post some pictures of the damage, it might help some of us to determine if we think there is anything else you should do..........just a thought.
Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
It was hard to sleep last night.I think I will take a trip to the house today with my camera. I know the house belongs to the raeltor but she assured me that they would not be showing the house.I was concerned about brand new carpet looking old in a hurry.My wife did say the carpet in the living room was pretty dirty from the contractor cleaning up the mess.My mother inlaw said to Kathy,"If you dad was still alive he would have said that the insurance company will make sure the house is fixed properly." I guess they removed all of the base boards to help air get into the walls to dry it out.
I did not sign any final papers and am intitled to a final inspection as well as the mortage company. A good thing may be that a fellow co worker of mine is the building inspector for that township. His wife just happens to be the township supervisor. I will run this by him.
Posted by JohnS (Member # 1073) on :
I'm really sorry to read this, Greg. Buying a new house should be an exciting time, and you don't need this frustration.
Personally, I would walk away from the deal. However, if the water is clean and the wood is allowed to dry thoroughly before the drywall and flooring are repaired, you should be okay. A lot of newly framed houses are rained on and get soaked during the building process, with no associated water problems when finished. If you do decide to keep the new house, you should hire a professional house inspector to look at the damage before and after the repair to give you peace of mind. Also, I suggest you get a warranty on the repairs, and see if the cost of the inspections can be deducted from the house price.
Posted by LT14SHOW (Member # 2187) on :
Greg I`m very sorry to hear about what happened! That realtor was very dishonest.It sounds like she was trying to cover up the problem before you guys knew anything about it. I would definitly question her and call the insurance company who is doing the fixing. Make sure they fix everything....right! It wouldn`t hurt to speak with a lawyer. Most of them will give you free advice.
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
quote:Originally posted by JohnS: I'm really sorry to read this, Greg. Buying a new house should be an exciting time, and you don't need this frustration.
Personally, I would walk away from the deal. However, if the water is clean and the wood is allowed to dry thoroughly before the drywall and flooring are repaired, you should be okay. A lot of newly framed houses are rained on and get soaked during the building process, with no associated water problems when finished. If you do decide to keep the new house, you should hire a professional house inspector to look at the damage before and after the repair to give you peace of mind. Also, I suggest you get a warranty on the repairs, and see if the cost of the inspections can be deducted from the house price.
The house inspector is a great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HIRE ONE NOW to look at the house in it's current condition before work starts (and you pick the inspector, not the realator)and also have the same inspector come back after the work is completed. Cut a deal with the realator that they will pay for the inspection!
[ 28. March 2004, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: SS_CarGuy ]
Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
Sorry to hear about the house . But like every one said that if it is allowed to dry out and repaired properly it should be ok.
I cant see how a toilet would "JUST START" for no reason. I can see a freeze up of the pipes if the heat wasnt maintained.But then on a house that is vacant I would think that the water would be shut at the main. The drain being pluged could be the painters empting the buckets of paint or mud from the walls.
Hope every thing works out, you might be stuck between a rock and a hard place though till the contract is up depending on what is in it. If you really dont want the house now and the relator dosent want to let you out of the contract your only recorse might be to raise the price of the old house back up and try and ride it out.
Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
The wife called the realtor yesterday and she was too busy to meet us at the house.She said that she was going to call and tell us but was busy with calling the insurance company and contractors. If this happened last Thurday,there was plenty of time to call us. She also stated that the house was being shown to show others what a modular home looks like when complete.She does have a piece of land 2 lots over from this house that she wants to put up a modular home and sell it. I drove there yesterday and peeked thru the windows. The living room carpet is all pulled loose and there are huge fans blowing air under it.The ceiling and a couple walls are full of 1" holes to let water out.All of that drywall will have to be replaced.The carpet is very dirty now from the contractors that were walking around on it.I hope they replace the carpet and pad.I believe the kitchen floor will have to be replaced.I will go there with the realtor on Tuesday or Thursday night. The realtor did say that we can back out of the house if we want to but did not say if she will return our down payment money. Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
Sorry to hear about this Greg. Murphy strikes again, eh!!
I think the idea of hiring a house inspector is a very good idea, and to have him/her look at the house now before the repairs are made and then afterwards as well.
You might want to have this person give you a report on what has to be fixed and/or replaced to bring the place back to new condition.
Also IMHO, you should seriosuly think about paying for this inspector yourself. You want this person working for YOU....not the realtor. If she pays for this person, that person is working for her....not you.
I used to be in the construction busienss and the company I was working for had to hire an inspector to give a report on a problem. You can bet that inspector knew who was paying his bill....get my drift!!
Posted by Cavy Dan (Member # 1352) on :
From the office of Lefever Title Research, Inc.: "If it were me--I would hire a good REAL ESTATE attorney (not just any attorney, but one that specializes in real estate--there is a big difference) This might be the best investment he makes in his new home or he may just be sinking a lot of $ down the road in a home that is rotted from the inside out."
I meet with my real estate teacher/attorney Tuesday and will ask him then since he specializes in exactly what you need. To tell you the truth, if you are able to get your money back i would just hold out for possibly that other new house they will be building, or another house Greg. Its just not worth the investment adn not sure if you will ever get that house back to "NEW" condition. Like others ahve said, this will be your single largest 'investment' you ever make and to start out with those problems is NOT worth it. If you cant get your deposit back, i would suggest hiring the attorney.
...just another 2 cents
Posted by Opie (Member # 2007) on :
Well talked with buddy of mine, knows real estate and the business (shark attrny). He said that "if you feel you have been mislead, misinformed, lied to or just don't feel everything is on the up and up", walk away with your deposit and find another home. "if they are not truthfull on one thing why would they be truthfull on anything"?. Makes sense to me.
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I can't believe this happened. I know how happy you were about this house, and I think it is wrong that your agent didn't contact you about this. It is horrible how you found out. I would have to agree with everyone else on this board, and say you should talk to a laywer. I think your agent should pay for an inspection, you shouldn't have to! I would be totally pissed if I were you. You should talk to someone who knows about how black mold forms to find out if you are in danger. Then weigh the facts to determine if you still want the house. We will talk about it tomorrow! Call me!
