Evidently, its a bad thing if too many of your students make good grades. It makes people think you are slacking off of teaching, rather than making them think you are actually getting better at doing your job...
Posted by twobratSS (Member # 2180) on :
I've been called into my principal's office for too many FAILING students, but not for too many A's. Guess my class is too hard...
I've gone from making them write their own notes from my lecturing to giving them a note outline for each chapter; from assigning worksheets to helping them by discussing and filling out the worksheets on the overhead while they write it on their paper; and on the day before the tests as a review, I show them the exact questions on the test and discuss the answer with them.
Some students have told me that it's easier to pass my class than it is to fail it. But inevitably (please don't check my spelling on that... ) I'll have about 12 - 15 that have a 35 or so average. Of course, it's also high school level...may be different at Princeton...just my .02 cents!
Posted by RagSS (Member # 1127) on :
...Now that makes a whole lot of sense. Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
If you want to lower the grades ALL you have to do is to lower the standards to get into Princeton . Getting students that are having trouble gettinc a "C" in class should help.
Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Originally posted by twobratSS: I've been called into my principal's office for too many FAILING students, but not for too many A's. Guess my class is too hard...
I've gone from making them write their own notes from my lecturing to giving them a note outline for each chapter; from assigning worksheets to helping them by discussing and filling out the worksheets on the overhead while they write it on their paper; and on the day before the tests as a review, I show them the exact questions on the test and discuss the answer with them.
Some students have told me that it's easier to pass my class than it is to fail it. But inevitably (please don't check my spelling on that... ) I'll have about 12 - 15 that have a 35 or so average. Of course, it's also high school level...may be different at Princeton...just my .02 cents!
That is absolutely unbelievable. Talk about spoon feeding......
What's the next step......writing the exam for them too??
Posted by cytruffle (Member # 1733) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bill Mason: That is absolutely unbelievable. Talk about spoon feeding......
What's the next step......writing the exam for them too??
You would not BELIEVE public schools these days....especially inner-city schools....pretty much if you show up most days and turn SOMETHING in most days, you'll pass; also, we have drop-out prevention programs here at the school where you can repeat a whole semester's work on a computer in about 3 or 4 weeks........and still they fail..... Posted by twobratSS (Member # 2180) on :
All comes down to apathy by the students (because they know they can get away with it) and teachers/administrators that want to keep their jobs...Again IMHO...
Posted by TxGC (Member # 2075) on :
I could have been worse. They could have also been directed to pass out percentages of other grades, including F's. My last school district wanted my grades to present a nice bell-shaped curve when graphed. The perfect curve would have the same number of A's as F's. Never could follow that rational in today's educational environment of "no child left behind."
Posted by Mike2001SS (Member # 2088) on :
You think thats bad where I go to eat lunch everyday 3 girls 18 years old wait tables and run the cash register. My lunch usually runs $3.48 and I most of the time will give them a $5.00 all 3 have to run it on adding machine to give me change out of a 5've everyday. But this started down hill along time ago. When I was in school I would get my grandmother to help me with math and she knew math I did not get till I was in second year of college and she only went to school 7 years, thats all they had when she was young but knew college level algebra
Posted by FireChicken (Member # 2067) on :
I think one thing I dont like is the bell curve idea. I dont think that reflects anything in reality. In all of my classes, the grade ranges are similar to what they were in high school. 100-90 A, 89-80 B, 79-70 C, 69-69 D, etc.
In most classes, if the range of grades is disproportionatly high in the number of C's and D's, then some curving may be applied to the class as a whole, nad it usuall ends up that
100-88 A, 87-76 B, 75-66 C, 66-50 D, etc. That is relatively acceptable, becasue its easy to have vast differences in grade ranges due to varying professors from section to section, or from semester to semester (which is not rigth, IMHO), and the curving is a way to try and objectify the grading to make it equal. Of course, to a certain extent, its all subjective, but I have been in classes where my grade was a legitimate A, and the professor has decided that since he didnt want to give A's, my 94 grade in the class must be a B.
I think that the grade you get should be based on your performance in the class on the grading scale used, but there should not be a limiting factor of percentages for who gets A's, B's, etc. I think if I got an 89 as the average in a class, a High B, and i was awarded a C because there were a lot of people who had 90, 91, 92, etc, as a grade, I would be severely pissed.
As far as primary education, that is a joke. My mom is an english teacher, and its absurd how many kids fail because they just dont do the work. And of course, parents dont support the school teachers, so kids are allowed to act up, and the blame falls on the teachers, since the kids could not possibly <sarcasm button on> be responsible for their actions.
Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Originally posted by FireChicken:
As far as primary education, that is a joke. My mom is an english teacher, and its absurd how many kids fail because they just dont do the work. And of course, parents dont support the school teachers, so kids are allowed to act up, and the blame falls on the teachers, since the kids could not possibly <sarcasm button on> be responsible for their actions.
Or parents could not possibly be at fault for not looking after their kids and making them do the work.
What really gets to me is the life messages this all sends to the kids that they are not responsible for their actions. At some point in time they will have to deal with the realities of life and the world around them (the world is a cruel and unforgiving place after all). But, when that time comes (and it will) they will not have been taught or given the necessary life tools to deal with it. In othere words, a lot of them are in for a rather rude awakening.
Posted by twobratSS (Member # 2180) on :
quote:Originally posted by FireChicken: ...and its absurd how many kids fail because they just dont do the work...
In my classroom, if a student tries hard for me, I'll bend over backwards for them to get them to pass. Some come in empty handed and sit and breathe air, then expect to pass. THEN when they get report cards, they always ask, "Why'd you fail me?" I always say, "I didn't fail you. You failed yourself."
I ran progress reports yesterday. I have a kid with a 10 average...A 10! I probably shouldn't have said it, but I told him we weren't playing golf...
Posted by SteelHorse (Member # 1725) on :
I don't think it is BS. A's are a lot easier to get in post high school education today. Seems that the middle grades are less used than they used to be. More students either fail or get A's than every before.
As for grades, I have a problem with all the partial credit that gets handed out. You do not get partial credit in the real world.
A lot of top schools are taking fire for it.
[ 28. April 2004, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: SteelHorse ]
Posted by FireChicken (Member # 2067) on :
For engineering, partial credit makes a lot of sense. In the real world, there are no closed book exams. You get to use all the reference materials for specific constants, diagrams, and formulas. THe purpose of most engineering exams I have ever taken is to determine if you understand the concept. If you understand a concept and how to apply it, then doing the math (even formula derivation) is simple. Thats why partial credit is valid in things like engineering. You also very rarely have independent engineering work if you work in a company. Everything is checked, double checked, triple checked, and things like FEA are done to provide multiple levels of safety where the engineering work is done.
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
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. Getting students that are having trouble gettinc a "C" in class should help.
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) I'll have about 12 - 15 that have a 35 or so average. Of course, it's also high school level...may be different at Princeton...just my .02 cents! ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
