Besides the gas prices around here increasing almost everyday...yesterday I get a call from my mortage company that I did not send enough money in my May house payment. Seems the Township of Canton, Mi. decided to raise taxes by a bunch. My taxes went up another $70 per month. That is crazy! My property taxes now are over $3,400 per year. Glad I won't be living here much longer. The people that are buying my house will be in for a big suprise after that house get reassessed. I keep asking myself, when will it end? My wages have not gone up in over 5 years. Government squeezing the little guys for every dime.
Ed, if yours did not go up yet, they will.
[ 06. May 2004, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: 2002Z4CSS ]
Posted by csmith4153 (Member # 2087) on :
Dont forget about car and house insurance going through the roof!
Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
quote:Originally posted by csmith4153: Dont forget about car and house insurance going through the roof!
Yes, higher insurance too! Insurance companies are just in business to make money only. The minute you have a claim ...your rates are increased. Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
quote:Originally posted by 2002Z4CSS: Besides the gas prices around here increasing almost everyday...yesterday I get a call from my mortage company that I did not send enough money in my May house payment. Seems the Township of Canton, Mi. decided to raise taxes by a bunch. My taxes went up another $70 per month. That is crazy! My property taxes now are over $3,400 per year. Glad I won't be living here much longer. The people that are buying my house will be in for a big suprise after that house get reassessed. I keep asking myself, when will it end? My wages have not gone up in over 5 years. Government squeezing the little guys for every dime.
Ed, if yours did not go up yet, they will.
Usually dont look. Nothing you can do about it so I just live with it. They come out of the mortgage payment so it dosent hurt as much.Just before I refinanced the payment went down $30 a month. That would indicate to me that they stayed about the same about $5000 a year.
Posted by CamaroSSgal (Member # 1870) on :
Holy crap!! I thought our property taxes were high! We're just under $2000 a year...but $5000?!?!?! That's crazy!!
Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
quote:Originally posted by CamaroSSgal: Holy crap!! I thought our property taxes were high! We're just under $2000 a year...but $5000?!?!?! That's crazy!!
Price of living I guess. Could move to a smaller house but then the 3 car garage would be gone.
Like they say the only thing that are asured are death and taxes . I'll pay the taxes .
Posted by JeffY (Member # 120) on :
At least the property tax is a deductible item from your income tax, so its not as bad.
Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
quote:Originally posted by 35TH ED/ed:
quote:Originally posted by CamaroSSgal: Holy crap!! I thought our property taxes were high! We're just under $2000 a year...but $5000?!?!?! That's crazy!!
Price of living I guess. Could move to a smaller house but then the 3 car garage would be gone.
Like they say the only thing that are asured are death and taxes . I'll pay the taxes .
Wow Ed! Those are some taxes! With all of the new expensive houses and businesses in Canton, how can they justify a tax increase? Posted by SS 891 (Member # 1968) on :
wow... i must live in a horrible area.. my property taxes are 700 a year for my3 bedroom 2 1/2 car garage.. I know it went up this year from having a 7 person hottub and wooden deck and i was upset.. but 5k a year.. woah!
amazing...
Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
quote:Originally posted by 2002Z4CSS:
quote:Originally posted by 35TH ED/ed:
quote:Originally posted by CamaroSSgal: Holy crap!! I thought our property taxes were high! We're just under $2000 a year...but $5000?!?!?! That's crazy!!
Price of living I guess. Could move to a smaller house but then the 3 car garage would be gone.
Like they say the only thing that are asured are death and taxes . I'll pay the taxes .
Wow Ed! Those are some taxes! With all of the new expensive houses and businesses in Canton, how can they justify a tax increase?
How can Bush justify being president........Oh ya "Chads" .Kidding aside probably the apartments (condos also?) that are going in that NO taxes are paid on. Police & Fire, The Summit and some of the road repairs/repaving to the west.Like JeffY said they are tax deductable.
Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS 891: wow... i must live in a horrible area.. my property taxes are 700 a year for my3 bedroom 2 1/2 car garage.. I know it went up this year from having a 7 person hottub and wooden deck and i was upset.. but 5k a year.. woah!
amazing...
I guess this is part of the reason.........
"Kansas-based Morgan Quitno, an independent research and publishing company, recently ranked Canton as the 10th safest community in America with a population of 75,000 to 100,000. Overall, Canton was ranked at the 16th safest community in America in all population categories..........."
Also cant complain about the value of the house. Mine has gone up almost $200K in 5 years.
Posted by SS 891 (Member # 1968) on :
I guess im part of the poor folk.. lol.. my house was 85k 2 years ago and appraised at 95k this year.. but it was our first home, so i guess its not that bad...
We have been looking for a another home, but for this area 125k will get something very nice, i guess if i compared it to where i used to live in Naples, FL, the same house with the same lot size would be 200-300k depending on location in town. Thats why i moved back up north! People always ask me why i moved. When i tell them, all questions have been answered.. lol Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS 891: I guess im part of the poor folk.. lol.. my house was 85k 2 years ago and appraised at 95k this year.. but it was our first home, so i guess its not that bad...
We have been looking for a another home, but for this area 125k will get something very nice, i guess if i compared it to where i used to live in Naples, FL, the same house with the same lot size would be 200-300k depending on location in town. Thats why i moved back up north! People always ask me why i moved. When i tell them, all questions have been answered.. lol
Well ,I am still poor folk. That is another reason why I sold my house in Canton to move to the country. Canton is going to tax the residents away. I can't see spending $300 and up per month on taxes for the township. Yes, you can deduct them but on each dollar you deduct, you don't get each full dollar back in return. They had to build a fancy fire station,police station, library,township hall and a place called the Summit (that I never stepped foot in). As far as apartment renters, their share of the property tax is figured into the rent payment. I moved from Westland where I owned a 3 bedroom ,1 bath ,1024 sq.ft. ranch where my taxes were well over $3,200 per year in the late 1980's and came to Canton where my house that was double the size had only a yearly tax bill of $1,800 when I moved there.
Posted by mhayman (Member # 146) on :
Greg's right. Real estate taxes are deductible, but you only realize a percentage of it depending on the tax bracket you are in. Many people don't realize it at all because they don't itemize.
Apartments and condos DO pay property taxes. The renters don't pay them, the owners do. I work for a real estate developer and property taxes are collectively the biggest expense we have.
You can look at it this way - the more you're taxed, the higher the value of your home. It just sucks because they higher value of your property doesn't mean more money in your pocket! Taxes in my area are easily in the $5000 - $15,000 per year range for most homes.
It really just comes down to the question of if it is worth it to pay that much to live here.
Posted by Opie (Member # 2007) on :
One of the arguments I make to the wifey. We would get a 3,000 dollar a year (or more) raise just for moving south or southwest. That just from property taxes.
Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
quote:Originally posted by Opie: One of the arguments I make to the wifey. We would get a 3,000 dollar a year (or more) raise just for moving south or southwest. That just from property taxes.
My sister has a 3,500 sq ft house in Mooresville,Nc. that is on a golf corse and right next door to Lake Norman, where many NASCAR drivers live. Her yearly taxes are less than $2,000. What a deal! Moving to a location where taxes are cheaper would be like giving you a raise. Then again, what is a raise? I have not seen one of those in 5 years. Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
Greg you need to call your mortgage company.Somebody is giving you the SCREW job.Millage rates are about the same from last year.And a rate increase of over $800 just dosent seem right.You dont have PMI or Homeowners included with your payment?
Looked over my statements when I got home and the mine are actually lower to what I paid for last year.They went down about $50 a year.And you know my house isn't all that small.
[ 06. May 2004, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: 35TH ED/ed ]
Posted by vargod (Member # 1116) on :
Taxes around here are $1.67/$100, one of the highest in the state of Va, but we have one the worst school systems in the state. When we bought our house and renovated it we got a 10 year tax abatement. No matter what the house is assessed for we only pay taxes on what we paid for the property. We paid 86k for our house b4 renovation and pay about $1400/per in taxes. The problem is though, when the 10 years are up we wont be able to afford the pay the taxes on it. The house is currently assessed at $450k and we have only 7 years left on the abatement and assessment are going up by 3% every year.
Posted by cytruffle (Member # 1733) on :
Well believe or not, out here in the left coast we actually do some stuff right. ( I know, I know it's hard to believe..)
Prop 13 was passed in California becuase of escalating tax rates. The citizens finally got fed up enough and put a stop to it.
Please bear in mind that the politicians still spend like they can raise taxes endlessly (and the funds will come from 'somewhere')....and sometimes get recalled from office when the deficit gets too big.
Posted by MY02SSLE (Member # 2178) on :
quote:Originally posted by 2002Z4CSS:
quote:Originally posted by csmith4153: Dont forget about car and house insurance going through the roof!
Yes, higher insurance too! Insurance companies are just in business to make money only. The minute you have a claim ...your rates are increased.
Don't I know it...
Posted by MM (Member # 1247) on :
quote:Originally posted by 35TH ED/ed:
quote:Originally posted by 2002Z4CSS: Besides the gas prices around here increasing almost everyday...yesterday I get a call from my mortage company that I did not send enough money in my May house payment. Seems the Township of Canton, Mi. decided to raise taxes by a bunch. My taxes went up another $70 per month. That is crazy! My property taxes now are over $3,400 per year. Glad I won't be living here much longer. The people that are buying my house will be in for a big suprise after that house get reassessed. I keep asking myself, when will it end? My wages have not gone up in over 5 years. Government squeezing the little guys for every dime.
Ed, if yours did not go up yet, they will.
Usually dont look. Nothing you can do about it so I just live with it. They come out of the mortgage payment so it dosent hurt as much.Just before I refinanced the payment went down $30 a month. That would indicate to me that they stayed about the same about $5000 a year.
Geez... I'm wondering what kind of mansion you live in... My taxes are under $1500 a year... pretty reasonible in my book.... But then again my house isn't THAT big so maybe they are high? Michigan is the worst they tax you to death... Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
quote:Originally posted by 35TH ED/ed: Greg you need to call your mortgage company.Somebody is giving you the SCREW job.Millage rates are about the same from last year.And a rate increase of over $800 just dosent seem right.You dont have PMI or Homeowners included with your payment?
Looked over my statements when I got home and the mine are actually lower to what I paid for last year.They went down about $50 a year.And you know my house isn't all that small.
My neighbors taxes just went up a month ago even more than the $700 mine did. They remodeled their kitchen. I have not done any major work on my house.I have no PMI in with my house payment.
Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
quote:Originally posted by cytruffle: .....sheesh, Greg!! .....complain, complain, complain!!!
At LEAST you get SNOW!!!!!
j/k!!!
Let me see...over 5 years since I had a wage increase. You see the automotive industry around here is not in the best shape it could be. What I hate is that Government has turned into a business instead of being for the people. It's all about the all mighty dollar and how much they can steal from us. If no one complains, it will never stop. Posted by Z28-SORR (Member # 1565) on :
I love to complain about taxes. So lets see who paid the most. I suspect some one from Cali. should take it. Mine, county and school, were $6,600. Got just enough back from Uncle Sam to pay them. No fair counting businesses.
Posted by KurtK (Member # 1779) on :
quote:Originally posted by Z28-SORR: I love to complain about taxes. So lets see who paid the most. I suspect some one from Cali. should take it. Mine, county and school, were $6,600. Got just enough back from Uncle Sam to pay them. No fair counting businesses.
You may be surprised! We pay around $6K a year for a house that is valued under Prop 13 for $460K. It was purchased 6 1/2 years ago for $440K. Last year it was appraised for a re-fi around $1M.
The gas taxes are pretty high and the politicians are always looking for new taxes on anything.
Remember that taxes are inflationary.
Posted by Z28-SORR (Member # 1565) on :
quote:Originally posted by KurtK:
quote:Originally posted by Z28-SORR: I love to complain about taxes. So lets see who paid the most. I suspect some one from Cali. should take it. Mine, county and school, were $6,600. Got just enough back from Uncle Sam to pay them. No fair counting businesses.
You may be surprised! We pay around $6K a year for a house that is valued under Prop 13 for $460K. It was purchased 6 1/2 years ago for $440K. Last year it was appraised for a re-fi around $1M.
The gas taxes are pretty high and the politicians are always looking for new taxes on anything.
Remember that taxes are inflationary.
Wow, your right. My assessed value is "only" 244,000. However most of the tax money around here comes from property taxes.
Posted by Fbodfather (Member # 1119) on :
well...ok...a couple of things.
Yes...insurance companies ARE in the business to make money. All businesses are in the business to make money.
As to the left coast...yes, Prop. 13 was passed..but correct me if I'm wrong...that was a couple of years ago.......and that's part of the problem as to why California is in financial trouble now. Yes, taxes were not increased, however, spending increased.......which equals disaster.
Taxes going up in Canton? Of course! It is a community that is developing so fast that the infrastructure can't keep up......schools, roads, sewers/waterlines, essential service....yes, the new homes generate taxes...BUT.....it takes a while to catch up.
The GOOD news is that you sold your house and are moving. Also, you think your taxes are high? Go talk to someone in NY or NJ.....I was paying almost twice that amount wayyyyyyyyy back in 1994.
The old saying about death and taxes is very true!
What I'd love to see happen is 'private sector' rules put forth to the government....I'll make you a wager that if you cut many government budgets by 20%, it would not be felt.....what WOULD happen is that the waste would be found ...and gotten rid of.....
[ 07. May 2004, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: Fbodfather ]
Posted by mhayman (Member # 146) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fbodfather: As to the left coast...yes, Prop. 13 was passed..but correct me if I'm wrong...that was a couple of years ago.......and that's part of the problem as to why California is in financial trouble now. Yes, taxes were not increased, however, spending increased.......which equals disaster.
Scott,
You are totally correct about hacking the waste out of government spending. There are articles in the paper here all the time about how government employees are making over $100,000 a year while sitting home on disability! Things like this are the reason that Prop 13 was passed and although these issues still exist, it has kept even more money out of government's hands.
A few facts about Prop 13 since most people think it is a horrible thing:
In 1991 California passed the biggest tax increase in the history of any state in the Union which negated many of the positive effects of Proposition 13.
In the 10 years after the passage of Proposition 13, incomes in California grew 50 percent faster than in the nation as a whole; jobs grew at twice the national pace.
California's budget climbed 75 percent above inflation and state tax revenues actually rose.
Basically Prop 13 saved the homeowners lots of money over they years, money that would have fed a bigger increase in our bureaucracies.
My parents home falls under prop 13. They pay some 2800 a year in prop taxes. Without prop 13, they would have to pay over 15,000. They wouldn't be able to afford it and would have to sell their home!
Posted by mhayman (Member # 146) on :
I must also add a few more things. This subject hits close to home for me because I work in the real estate development industry. I can only speak of local experience though.
I feel the developers should have to include more schools, road improvements and the like in new projects. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen. Because of this lack of development responsibility, we have basically a school system that is so messed up boundary-wise, that kids that live within a block or two of a school aren't going to that school!
My own boss has a project right now that he is fighting with city hall about. He wants a percentage of future property taxes pushed his way to compensate him for a new apartment development where a new road, stoplight, etc will be added. He feels these improvements should not be paid by the developer, which I completely disagree with. The market price of the apartments should take care of it all.
This type of funneling of funds is what causes problems in the local governments. While I am driving over potholed roads, my boss is asking for a few more millions of dollars from the city when he already is worth over 500 million dollars himself! Why strain the community?
Posted by cytruffle (Member # 1733) on :
quote:Originally posted by MM: Geez... I'm wondering what kind of mansion you live in...
.....you wouldn't believe it....!!
quote:Originally posted by 2002Z4CSS: If no one complains, it will never stop.
I know.....I'm just ing you!! Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
quote:Originally posted by cytruffle: I know.....I'm just ing you!!
Thanks,I knew that you were just kidding. Posted by OBSSD (Member # 1258) on :
Owning a home will certainly be nice, but I'm not looking forward to dealing with all this crap. If only government agencies would learn some fiscal responsibility! It's certainly frustrating to have them raising taxes while ignoring the wasteful spending.
Many of you may remember Oregon's ballot measure 30 this year. I have two brothers that are teachers but still couldn't bring myself to vote for the measure because I didn't see the state make any concerted effort to increase efficiency; instead, they threatened cuts to the services that matter most to people. Can you say extortion?
quote:RESULT OF "NO" VOTE:"No" vote retains existing personal income, corporate and other tax laws; triggers $544.6 million in budget cuts to education, healthcare, senior services, public safety.
ERRRGH, it just ticks me off to no end I knew I shouldn't have kept coming back to this thred. See what you started Greg
[ 07. May 2004, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: OBSSD ]
Posted by KurtK (Member # 1779) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fbodfather: As to the left coast...yes, Prop. 13 was passed..but correct me if I'm wrong...that was a couple of years ago.......and that's part of the problem as to why California is in financial trouble now.
No- that is not true.
"Proposition 13 was an initiative measure to curb runaway property taxation. Passed in 1979, effective 1980, it limited property taxation to 1% of value, and pegged value to a 1975 base year." Randomly selected Prop 13 link ( Please read more. The author asks rhetorically why that the unrealized increase in value of real estate is taxed, where it is not taxed in securities.)
What occured in California recently was that the overall revenue (taxes) dropped appreciable due to the downturn in business (end of the dot-bomb bubble for one thing) starting 3 years ago.
The Democratic-lead legislature and ex-gov Gray Davis kept the spending like the good 'ol days, despite being warned by the state controller (a Democrat!)that was predicting much lower revenues.
The problem in California is overspending- not lack of revenue, unless of course you believe that your paycheck belongs to the state.
BTW- the school systems get more money now, however they were caught up in the same mentality that their funding would keep going up despite economic changes. (Go figure!)
The fundamental issue here is the control of spending by the government. Limiting collection revenue is only one means of control.
[ 07. May 2004, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: KurtK ]
Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
Originally posted by cytruffle:
quote:Originally posted by MM: Geez... I'm wondering what kind of mansion you live in...
.....you wouldn't believe it....!!
AH Millie you make me blush . Its only 2900 Sq feet.
You think that is bad? Here in Indiana, they reassessed EVERYTHING "in an effort to shift the tax burden from the struggling industries to the homeowners" and things have gotten really out of hand. There are some people in a part of Gary that is actually pretty nice called Miller Beach where their taxes went up from 2,500 to 8,000. My parents went from 1500 up to 3200.
God bless the USA!!
Posted by 35TH ED/ed (Member # 1709) on :
Thats what I'm afraid of.I want to retire,afraid to retire................I can feel for your parents.
Posted by chrisL (Member # 97) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fbodfather: Go talk to someone in NY or NJ.....I was paying almost twice that amount wayyyyyyyyy back in 1994.
Most of my coworkers in Rockland County are deep into 6k range.
We moved so far away to avoid insane taxes, I now have cows as neighbors.
but still... we've had 2 big bumps the last years.
[ 07. May 2004, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: chrisL ]
Posted by cytruffle (Member # 1733) on :
"only" 2900 sq. ft. ....and purty, too! that fireplace ROCKS....!! as does the deck & hot tub....
quote:Originally posted by chrisL: I now have cows as neighbors.
.....there are cows in NY??? Posted by Mike2001SS (Member # 2088) on :
Well several years ago I moved 25 miles out of the city to farming country to get away from it all but we have had ours go up also as more and more homes have been built in our area. I have 4 acres of land and the house in the middle of it with 2 acres in yard, the house is small only 2004 feet heated, 7 rooms, 2 baths, utility room, 10x12 screened in porch and a 14x32 deck and our taxes are between 500 and 600 a year.
Posted by Oh2xSSivLS1 (Member # 1915) on :
I hate to diss the Eastern US, all of you should consider a move out west! Forget California though.
I lived in Eastern Washington my whole life. Everything costs less less... including taxes.
Scott
Posted by KurtK (Member # 1779) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oh2xSSivLS1: I hate to diss the Eastern US, all of you should consider a move out west! Forget California though.
There are stil advantage to living here(no...not the ability to pay higher taxes.)
Most of California is not San Francisco or Los Angeles- that's just what you see on TV and movies. A lot is very sparsely populated- you see that once you get out of the population centers. For examples- Go to northeast part of the state, say east of Mt. Lassen. Or the coast north of Marin. Or even the 'Gold Country' (the Sierra Nevada foothills)and see the still small towns (and twisty roads).
One aspect most people appreciate is the overall climate- no snow or hurricanes, low summer humidity. The geography is very diverse- beaches, coastal mountains, the Sierra Nevada (Lake Tahoe and Yosemite).
A major issue (to me) has been the increase in population, a lot of that has been in the SF Bay and Los Angeles/San Diego areas, and those areas drive the demand for more goverment services which drive up taxes.
(I like it here 'cause there are 14 wineries in town, 1 in easy walking distiance )
Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike2001SS: Well several years ago I moved 25 miles out of the city to farming country to get away from it all but we have had ours go up also as more and more homes have been built in our area. I have 4 acres of land and the house in the middle of it with 2 acres in yard, the house is small only 2004 feet heated, 7 rooms, 2 baths, utility room, 10x12 screened in porch and a 14x32 deck and our taxes are between 500 and 600 a year.
Mike, my sisters taxes are real cheap and her houses back yard is next to a golf course on Lake Norman. Those are reasonable taxes you pay. Posted by Mike2001SS (Member # 2088) on :
quote:Originally posted by 2002Z4CSS:
quote:Originally posted by Mike2001SS: Well several years ago I moved 25 miles out of the city to farming country to get away from it all but we have had ours go up also as more and more homes have been built in our area. I have 4 acres of land and the house in the middle of it with 2 acres in yard, the house is small only 2004 feet heated, 7 rooms, 2 baths, utility room, 10x12 screened in porch and a 14x32 deck and our taxes are between 500 and 600 a year.
Mike, my sisters taxes are real cheap and her houses back yard is next to a golf course on Lake Norman. Those are reasonable taxes you pay.
But we still complain Greg
Posted by 2002Z4CSS (Member # 1393) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike2001SS: But we still complain Greg
Anytime we have to hand over our hard earned cash to the Government we will complain.
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. I'll pay the taxes ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
.
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ing you!! ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
. Its only 2900 Sq feet.