the only spot where it's bubbling is the panel between my ttops and the rear window...you can see the bubbles popping and releasing some sort of liquid..and you can also see the ripples on the top...
I called the dealership - he said to bring it in, but said that they probably wouldn't be able to do anything about it, and that I would have to take it to my insurance company..
I, then, called GM, the lady said to take it to the dealership to get it looked at and have them call GM to see what could possibly be done...
I don't think I should have to pay for this. It's been VERY well taken care of - garaged, and if it wasn't in the garage, it's been covered by the car cover i bought from SLP..i told GM that i didn't want the whole car painted, just the panel that was bubbling. I don't know why this is happening - other than a defect
Anybody else have any advice on what to do/who to go to with this? Anybody else experience the same thing?
and my post today after id visited the dealership: okay...I need to vent. This guy has REALLY pissed me off. And i don't cuss at people often..but this guy drove me to it. I took it in today. And the guy was a total dick about it. He was a dick on the phone on friday and he was a dick on the phone today before I came in. I told him about the paint bubbles and he said "is that right?" in a condescending tone. But, he told me to bring it in.. I was pissed that he got an attitude on the phone, so I went in i wasn't the nicest person in the world, either.
It's been raining here all day so my car WAS WET! You can't see the bubbles when the car is WET! I pulled it into the garage. Bodyshop manager: I dont see any bubbles. me: Dry off the car and THEN look.
I dried it off with my shirt and then pointed out a couple of bubbles on the driver's side and on the top. He then went to the passenger side and said "I dont see any bubbles" me: You have to dry the ****ing car off first.
So i dried it off with my shirt AGAIN and pointed out about 4 bubbles on the passenger side.
He then proceeded to tell me that the bubbles don't look like paint bubbles, but something on TOP of the paint causing it. He was insinuating that I had put something on the panel to cause it to bubbles. He touched one of the bubbles and smeared some of the "ooze,' as i call it, on the car. Him: See, if that was a paint bubbles it wouldn't be doing that. Me: Youre the body shop manager, you tell me what the **** it is, then Him: I dont know what it is.
All he could tell me throughout the whole ordeal was that it wasn't under warranty so there's nothing he could do. I told him that reguardless of warranty, this is GM's ****up and it needs to get fixed. I could understand a warranty issue with something mechanical breaking - but this is PAINT. GM ****ed up, and has admitted it, and it needs to get fixed. He didn't seem to comprehend that fact because in retort he said "Well i can't do any work that GM hasn't authorized. He explained to me, as if i was stupid, that the TSB isn't a recall, and it was printed in 2001 (he pointed out to me that the number above the date, which is february 2003, is in fact the date it was PRINTED, i then asked him what the feb. 03 was and he said it was the date that I had printed it out. I then told him i didnt have the car in 2003 and he quickly shut up)
Someone mentioned in the thread that scott might be able to help with this...what should i do now? Posted by RagSS (Member # 1127) on :
...There is (I believe) a TSB on the paint bubbling, ....a known problem with the Composite or glue that was used to glue it in place. There are posts on this is you search. Sadly enough others have been through what it seems you're facing now... Hope it gets fixed.
Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
Can you take it to another dealer, where maybe sanity will prevail and they will at least look at the problem and TSB with an open mind.
Given the attitude of this dealer, I would have to question why you would even want them to touch your car.
This is a lesson I have learned the hard way....more than once....must be a slow learner, eh.
Posted by Hawk196 (Member # 2175) on :
I noticed some rippling on my Firehawk and GM should fix it.
BUT......
You have to factor in the "Cost of Aggravation" and I can tell you've already experienced it. Mine doesn't have any 'ooze'.......so I figured I'd get it fixed when I have the nose/hood repainted.
I wouldn't leave my car overnight, so I'll have to find a trusted body shop.
Tom
Posted by MMMM_ERT (Member # 1599) on :
My 01 SS had the same bubbling halo problem... interestingly enough...my 94, 95 Z28s did not Nor did my wifes 97 Camaro....
How does a company go from doing it right to wrong?
Anyway...there is a TSB...but do you trust your dealer to do it right? I wouldn't. Take it to a reputable body shop to fix it on your own penny.
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: Here it is Roof pillar TSB
Posted by TimeLord (Member # 1389) on :
This is the reason that GM is loosing so many clients to offshore automakers....
There is a problem,it is admitted and TSB is out on it,and the neanderthal dealers jerk you around for no reason.
[ 08. June 2004, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: TimeLord ]
Posted by MMMM_ERT (Member # 1599) on :
quote:Originally posted by TimeLord: This is the reason that GM is loosing so many clients to offshore automakers....
There is a problem,it is admitted and TSB is out on it,and the neanderthal dealers jerk you around for no reason.
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
Hmmmm...when I took my Suburban in and took the mechanic for a test drive to unsuccesfully try and replicate a problem he said, "I beleive you. Let me go back and look for a TSB...I think I remember something similar to this?"
If that's jerking around I guess the BMw dealers must provide while you wait
[ 08. June 2004, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: SSHEETS ]
Posted by TimeLord (Member # 1389) on :
No one discussed BMW or any other brand,we are just referring to the CAVALIER way dealers treat their clients and rarely take the customers side,you are lucky to have a decent dealer with a memory.!!!!!! Posted by MMMM_ERT (Member # 1599) on :
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS:
If that's jerking around I guess the BMw dealers must provide while you wait
LOL....you don't even wanna go there budinski...
Night and day is all I can say. Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: Hmmmm...when I took my Suburban in and took the mechanic for a test drive to unsuccesfully try and replicate a problem he said, "I beleive you. Let me go back and look for a TSB...I think I remember something similar to this?"
If that's jerking around I guess the BMw dealers must provide while you wait
Tim.......your dealer is an exception unfortunately. GM should hire that guy to train and discipline all the other lousy ones who make you feel like a moron. UNTIL GM UNDERSTANDS THEY NEED TO FIX THEIR DEALER NETWORK, they can build the best cars in the world but they will still lose business because of poor treatment of customers.
Now as far as getting your halo fixe, yes.....they will fix it for you. The TSB mentioned in the links above are all you need. Tell the idiots at the dealership to call for an authorization so you can get the work done. Mine was out of the 3 year warranty period and they fixed it free of charge. Be prepared to be without your car for several days though.
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
quote:Originally posted by MMMM_ERT:
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS:
If that's jerking around I guess the BMw dealers must provide while you wait
LOL....you don't even wanna go there budinski... Night and day is all I can say.
Pete, I know you're not supposed to discuss the perks unless you're talking to another BMW owner.
Time, you're right, I'm lucky I've been treated well everytime I've been to the dealer... that spans all manufacturers, not just GM. I know BMW is the benchmark for customer satisfaction...I beleive some of that is due to the phycological make up of BMW owners. The Yuppy owners love their cars because they make them look successful Most of them have no clue about the car's internals.
Now some of the BMW owners (M class...and some 540 owners ) do have a real appreciation for the Engineering history behind the Bavarian Motor Works Cars. I do have much more respect for a cars with true history compared to say a Lexus that was just a strategic marketing move to take over some of the market segment.
I mainly feel it important to point out that I've always been treated well by GM people. I guess if anyone has a right to complain, I certainly have a right to counter
[ 08. June 2004, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: SSHEETS ]
Posted by MMMM_ERT (Member # 1599) on :
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS:
Now some of the BMW owners (M class...and some 540 owners ) do have a real appreciation for the Engineering history behind the Bavarian Motor Works Cars.
You should check out some of the Bimmer forums, you may find it surprising that there are many more than a "few" true enthusiasts who do not buy the car for the name or status and many who laugh at the stereotypical "image" Bimmer owner. I was surprised myself. The same stereotype responses go along with Camaro/Firebird owners....ie Redneck, white trash, guido etc etc.. I never fit that sterotype and I am quite sure many of others here do not either. Well, I am half Italian...so I guess guido fits.
But back to service and the topic on hand. Dave (SS_Carguy) couldn't have stated it any better above. There are good stories for GM service such as yours and others....but the majority of experiences show the need for a major overhaul.
I know its ol Re-Pete in action here but, ....service and corporate inaction is why I am no longer GM loyal.
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
quote:Originally posted by MMMM_ERT:
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS:
Now some of the BMW owners (M class...and some 540 owners ) do have a real appreciation for the Engineering history behind the Bavarian Motor Works Cars.
You should check out some of the Bimmer forums, you may find it surprising that there are many more than a "few" true enthusiasts who do not buy the car for the name or status and many who laugh at the stereotypical "image" Bimmer owner. I was surprised myself. The same stereotype responses go along with Camaro/Firebird owners....ie Redneck, white trash, guido etc etc.. I never fit that sterotype and I am quite sure many of others here do not either. Well, I am half Italian...so I guess guido fits.
But back to service and the topic on hand. Dave (SS_Carguy) couldn't have stated it any better above. There are good stories for GM service such as yours and others....but the majority of experiences show the need for a major overhaul.
I know its ol Re-Pete in action here but, ....service and corporate inaction is why I am no longer GM loyal.
Fair enough and nicely written. Posted by ReBop (Member # 1871) on :
MY dealer was happy to honor the TSB and replaced my entire roof under GM warranty. Good luck.
Posted by buddy wagner f99-2340 (Member # 219) on :
are they replacing the roof panels on these cars under waranty? i thought i would have to live with the bubbling paint! has anyone had it done? how invasive is it on the car? i gotta admit im afraid to leave my car at a chevy dealership and let some 19 year old cut the roof off my car!
Posted by Fbodfather (Member # 1119) on :
you have mail
Posted by buddy wagner f99-2340 (Member # 219) on :
no i dont!
Posted by obseSSed (Member # 2276) on :
And, again, I'm not bad-mouthing ALL chevy/gm dealerships because the used car side of the dealer that i went to was amazing. That's where I bought my trans am from. Hell, I even go back from time to time and shoot the poop with them. They were a great group of guys. As well as the dealer I bought the SS from. They gave me an awesome deal - in fact, i even think they lost money in the trans action. I paid $12,500 for my trans am and rolled over $4000 because of the 03 F-150 i traded in (had it for 3 weeks.) Connell Chevy (in killeen, tx) gave me $11,500 for the trans am (which was in crappy shape - the tranny was slipping and going out and i was throwing all sorts of air/fuel metering codes) and even came down $3000 on the price of the SS. The sticker on the SS was $20,000 - but in the end I only paid $17,000 for it. If all GM dealerships were like that, there would be no need for any other brand of car.
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
quote:Originally posted by buddy wagner f99-2340: are they replacing the roof panels on these cars under waranty? i thought i would have to live with the bubbling paint! has anyone had it done? how invasive is it on the car? i gotta admit im afraid to leave my car at a chevy dealership and let some 19 year old cut the roof off my car!
As I said, I had mine done by the dealer under warranty; they did an excellent job (Burns Chevrolet in Rock Hill, South Carolina). They had to cut the panel off. Obviously they do this with the t-tops out and the hatch open. So they should cover these areas while they are doing the work. My car had a little bit of dust in it afterwards but it wasn't bad. They primer and paint a new panel while it's off the car. So obviously this will take a day or two. Then they have to glue the new panel back on the car. They usually want to give the glue a day to dry also. So plan on being without your car for several days all total.
Posted by CK-1 99SS (Member # 93) on :
I too have just realized that I have this problem.. I was in a car show this past weekend and the sun was baking down on it all day.. Over the period of the 10 hours i was out there the bubbling got worse and worse to the point that I could see all the points of where the glue was.. I was shocked to say the least. I could actually run my hand over the bubbles and feel the bumps all over my roof... My car has never done this before. I am not sure what I am going to do about this as my car is out of warranty.. Its not like it is ever parked outside except for car shows.. On a better note though when I took my car home and put it in the garage the roof cooled down and most of the bubbles went down but there are some still there.. This now puts me in a dilema as what to do about it.. I guess I will wait and see what it looks like next time it is out...
What should I do???
I do know of the TSB and have for awhile now.. I just figured I was lucky enough not to have it... Posted by JohnS (Member # 1073) on :
quote:Originally posted by CK-1 99SS: What should I do???
The first thing to do is talk to your local GM service manager. He/she will have to contact the district service manager/rep to see if GM will cover the cost of the repair. Although some people in the US have had the repair done for free outside of the warranty period, I wasn't so lucky. I didn't get past the Service Manager. He called the district rep who wouldn't look at the car or give the okay to do the work. I ended up having to have an outside shop do the work per the TSB, and paying for it myself. Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
Print the TSB from the Roof pillar TSB link and have it with you when you go to the dealer. Don't shove it in his face as if to imply that he wouldn't take care of it unless you threaten. Just show him the problem and mention that there is a TSB out on the issue and you can provide it if it will help.
I've never had a problem with dealer service ...I don't expect you to either.
[ 09. June 2004, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: SSHEETS ]
Posted by Y2KSS1363 (Member # 1564) on :
Is this a problem only on T-top cars? My hardtop shows no paint bubbles.
As far as dealers' service departments go, I think the quality of service delivered has a lot to do with the knowledge of the customer and the customers' attitude. If the service writer knows he can't BS you he won't. If the customer shows a willingness to work with the service writer, the service writer is willing to work with the customer.
One thing for sure, service writers earn their pay!
Posted by Hawk196 (Member # 2175) on :
quote:Originally posted by CK-1 99SS: I too have just realized that I have this problem.. I was in a car show this past weekend and the sun was baking down on it all day.. Over the period of the 10 hours i was out there the bubbling got worse and worse to the point that I could see all the points of where the glue was.. I was shocked to say the least. I could actually run my hand over the bubbles and feel the bumps all over my roof... My car has never done this before. I am not sure what I am going to do about this as my car is out of warranty.. Its not like it is ever parked outside except for car shows.. On a better note though when I took my car home and put it in the garage the roof cooled down and most of the bubbles went down but there are some still there.. This now puts me in a dilema as what to do about it.. I guess I will wait and see what it looks like next time it is out...
What should I do???
I do know of the TSB and have for awhile now.. I just figured I was lucky enough not to have it...
You also have a '99. How many miles do you have on yours?
Tom
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
quote:Originally posted by Y2KSS1363: Is this a problem only on T-top cars? My hardtop shows no paint bubbles.
As far as dealers' service departments go, I think the quality of service delivered has a lot to do with the knowledge of the customer and the customers' attitude. If the service writer knows he can't BS you he won't. If the customer shows a willingness to work with the service writer, the service writer is willing to work with the customer.
One thing for sure, service writers earn their pay!
quote:Originally posted by Y2KSS1363: Is this a problem only on T-top cars? My hardtop shows no paint bubbles.
As far as dealers' service departments go, I think the quality of service delivered has a lot to do with the knowledge of the customer and the customers' attitude. If the service writer knows he can't BS you he won't. If the customer shows a willingness to work with the service writer, the service writer is willing to work with the customer.
One thing for sure, service writers earn their pay!
How true. I am lucky that Henna Chevrolet here in town has been nothing but helpful on ANY issue with our Camaros. If there's a remote chance something is covered under warranty, they'll investigate. Not saying they'll always go in my favor, but anything they can do to get it right within their power, they will. They've always treated us right and for the most part, do quality work. Only had to take one back once for the pinion seal. And that was a 50/50 shot the first time. But they did fix it.
Still, I'm always jittery of letting someone else work on my car, but they're the closest I'll come to having an easy feeling with it.
Posted by MMMM_ERT (Member # 1599) on :
quote:Originally posted by Y2KSS1363:
As far as dealers' service departments go, I think the quality of service delivered has a lot to do with the knowledge of the customer and the customers' attitude. If the service writer knows he can't BS you he won't. If the customer shows a willingness to work with the service writer, the service writer is willing to work with the customer.
One thing for sure, service writers earn their pay!
Steve, I agree with you that many times its a customers attitude that causes either a good experience or problems........but for the most part GM service is substandard and they lie and cheat. I've had many, many years of experience of it. So many stories I could write a book....
No matter how nice, knowledgeable you are, the dealer is gonna stick it to you anyway.
First time at this perticular dealer (Bob Stall) I went in politely and very friendly about my warped rotors, told them I know that it was a common problem...turning the rotors would only be a temporary fix. Of course, they just turned them and sent me on my way.
Sure enough...rotors warped again in less than 3K miles. Took it back in nice, friendly and polite and restated my knowledge of the problem I learned from these message boards. I'm thinkin okay, he was very receptive to my discussion with him...i'm gonna get new rotors or they are going to find out what was causing it.
I get a call from the service writer later that day. "We turned your rotors, this will be the last time...you must be racing the car to get the rotors to warp like this"...noting that they had seen the SFC's and STb on the car. Which, by the way, were added to cure GMs sloppy chassis design, leaking windows and t-tops. I picked up the car and was not happy but was not rude in any way.
I called the 800 service number, politely, and stated my case...they pretty much told me to get bent and that they stand behind the dealer. Now, the car was black-listed on GMs computer as "modified" and going to another dealer was out of the question. That was the beginning of the end, the straw that broke the camels back.
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
Sorry to hear that (again ) Pete.
I've read many times how you've stated your case and it seems that that dealer's actions may have lost a true Chevy enthhusiast
Like I said before though, I can honeslty point out the good service I've had everytime I've had one of my Chevys in for service. I just left the dealership a few minutes ago to check on the Suburban, it's not done yet, but the Mechanic was just setting up an area in the shop to work on the seat. He was laying out a clean blanket on a rolling cart so he could work on it and keep it clean. He then took the time to walk me over to the car (UAV ) and show the work he had completed. He was extremely polite and professional.
I know Scott helps out a lot of people and you yourself once said that I'm treated well because I know Scott...I've met him 2-3 times now and (other than that time at bandcamp)as I said before, I met Scott as a result of my GM selections and my treatment started far sooner than any relationship with any message board or meeting the Settlemiester
I believe you and know that not all dealers are great, but that problem is not specific to GM and it sure seems to me like GM is trying to resolve this issue. As you know, when corporations are huge, it takes alot of time and energy to overcome the hysteresis inherent in the system. Posted by MMMM_ERT (Member # 1599) on :
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: Sorry to hear that (again ) Pete.
I've read many times how you've stated your case and it seems that that dealer's actions may have lost a true Chevy enthhusiast
Like I said before though, I can honeslty point out the good service I've had everytime I've had one of my Chevys in for service. I just left the dealership a few minutes ago to check on the Suburban, it's not done yet, but the Mechanic was just setting up an area in the shop to work on the seat. He was laying out a clean blanket on a rolling cart so he could work on it and keep it clean. He then took the time to walk me over to the car (UAV ) and show the work he had completed. He was extremely polite and professional.
I know Scott helps out a lot of people and you yourself once said that I'm treated well because I know Scott...I've met him 2-3 times now and (other than that time at bandcamp)as I said before, I met Scott as a result of my GM selections and my treatment started far sooner than any relationship with any message board or meeting the Settlemiester
I believe you and know that not all dealers are great, but that problem is not specific to GM and it sure seems to me like GM is trying to resolve this issue. As you know, when corporations are huge, it takes alot of time and energy to overcome the hysteresis inherent in the system.
I know...I know..same old story...but it was in context of Steves comments about how the writer is treated.
I shouldn't have to "know" someone in GM to get quality work done...I shouldn't have to drive 45 miles to Steves dealer in Escondito who he says is wonderful. ....and GM should have stood behind the product. How many LS1 owners have had the warped rotor problem? Thousands I would guess by the posts I've seen on various message boards.
GM sits back not doing anything about it waiting for all those cars to go out of warranty...more parts, more labor...more $$$$. I guess they don't see the people who have lost faith and took their $$$$ elsewhere.
Your experiences with your dealer are wonderful. I would get my car(s) back filthy with greasy handprints on them, one time there was residue from something hitting the car stuck on the door, I've had the car returned to me with broken spark plugs, improperly filled PS resevoir. etc etc etc etc ad hominem. No writer or mechanic has ever walked me to my car or anound my car in 18 years to show me what was done! Count your blessings.
What you have with your dealer is what I've found with the "other" manufacturer in the last four years. These are two different dealers...where we bought my wifes car and where we just bought mine (there are only two within 50 miles that I know of). Simply incredible is all I can say.
Maybe its because there are fewer BMW dealers and the competition to be the best is tight. There are GM dealers all over the place here and they just don't seem to give a flying fook...
Posted by Bill Mason (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Originally posted by Y2KSS1363:
As far as dealers' service departments go, I think the quality of service delivered has a lot to do with the knowledge of the customer and the customers' attitude. If the service writer knows he can't BS you he won't. If the customer shows a willingness to work with the service writer, the service writer is willing to work with the customer.
One thing for sure, service writers earn their pay!
I can assure that is NOT always the case.
Been there, done that and have the empty wallet to prove it.
I was a GM dealers number one customer as told to me by the Service Manager....more than once and they still screwed me royally. It resulted in an out of court settlement which STILL cost me over 3,000 dollars after the settlement.
Posted by SS 891 (Member # 1968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Y2KSS1363: As far as dealers' service departments go, I think the quality of service delivered has a lot to do with the knowledge of the customer and the customers' attitude. If the service writer knows he can't BS you he won't. If the customer shows a willingness to work with the service writer, the service writer is willing to work with the customer.
One thing for sure, service writers earn their pay!
I wanna buy you a beer!!!! Thank You.
I have noticed in everyday life, you get bad service from once place and not another or all of them. Its everyday. How many times have you been through a Mc D's drive through and your order was wrong? Does it happen more at Mc D's or Burger King? Does one dry cleaner seem more interested in getting that pen stain from your shirt than another? You can not resonably state that all GM dealerships or any brand dealerships are the same. Thats why all automakers have CSI Surveys that are sent out after warranty repairs. How can I, a service Manager/Writer in a town of 220,000 have a CSI that is WELL above market, WELL above national scores and yet still be a top producer for the region? Its called, Listening to the customer and doing what the customer asked. I know that if I dont, someone else will. Plain and simple. I get so tired of hearing that all dealerships rip people off.
I treat ALL customer the same. I don't care if its a 96 Lumina or a 2004 Z06. I can tell you though, if a customer act's like an ass, I will not go to bat for him to get assistance from GM. If I came to your business and demanded like a lot of customers do now days, You would feel the same way.
Nobody wants to take a car to get repairs, under warranty or not. Its time consuming. Even if you dont have to spend money, it takes away from your life and you "bought a new car, it shouldn't have problems already." Or, the car is out of warranty and it will cost time AND money. Nobody is ever happy to see a Service writer. EVER! When i sit back and think about some of the people I deal with and the HUGE attitude that comes with these people, Its a wonder I haven't gone crazy for doing this job.
If someone "Puts the screws to you", You as a consumer have a choice, Don't go back. Find someone that takes care of their customers. I invite ANYONE near me to bring thier vehicles to me. You will see what service is supposed to be.
[/soapbox]
[ 09. June 2004, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: SS 891 ]
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
SS891.......I hear you! Not all dealers have the same problem and a good service writer can be a real pleasure to work with. Just out of curiousity, what is your policy on the problem that started this thread....the paint bubbling issue? And why do customers seem to get different stories from different dealers? Just curious.
[ 09. June 2004, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: SS_CarGuy ]
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS 891: I wanna buy you a beer!!!! Thank You.
[/QB]
I wanna beer Posted by SS 891 (Member # 1968) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS_CarGuy: Just out of curiousity, what is your policy on the problem that started this thread....the paint bubbling issue?
i can honestly say I have yet had anyone come to our dealership with this problem. (although, I haven't closely inspected mine yet! )
quote:Originally posted by SS_CarGuy: And why do customers seem to get different stories from different dealers? Just curious.
Just like i posted before, no two dealerships, business' or people are alike. We are very fortunate to have a GM rep that believes taking care of the customer is #1. I will tell you this, if you buy your vehicle at a certain dealership and do all your service there, they see you are a "good customer". They should bend over backwards to retain you. (at least I do)
If I don't take care of my customer, somebody else WILL.
[ 09. June 2004, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: SS 891 ]
Posted by SS 891 (Member # 1968) on :
quote:Originally posted by MMMM_ERT
for the most part GM service is substandard and they lie and cheat. I've had many, many years of experience of it. So many stories I could write a book....
No matter how nice, knowledgeable you are, the dealer is gonna stick it to you anyway.
I dont know how exactly take that, but it puts ME in that group.
What do you do for a living?
Posted by MMMM_ERT (Member # 1599) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS 891: I dont know how exactly take that, but it puts ME in that group.
What do you do for a living?
Note that I said "most"....clearly there are some good GM dealers out there...I have not found any...fortunetely, I won't have to continue the search.
As for what I do...I am in electronics and have been for 18 years. I have worked for a major contract manufacturer for 8 years. We took great pride in getting the job done right. If we screwed up...we ate it. We earned quite a loyal customer base from EE's who went from job to job but always came to us for services. I expect the same from companies I deal with.
I also worked for GM/Hughes/Delco Propulsion Systems in the mid-90's...(contractor) and worked on the EV1/Impact electric car power electronics. I still have friends at GM in Torrance...good group of people.
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
...that's OK, I'll get my own beer Posted by SS 891 (Member # 1968) on :
quote:Originally posted by MMMM_ERT: Note that I said "most"....
You did say "most" in the paragraph above this comment: "No matter how nice, knowledgeable you are, the dealer is gonna stick it to you anyway."
Although your resume sounds impressive, it sounds like to me, you didn't deal with the "general public", it was business to business. So I can understand how you would have difficulty in placing yourself in my "shoes".
This could go on and on for months. The point is, it was not my job to build the car. It is my job however, to make sure that the customer is "completely satisfied" and more than 97% of MY customers sre. You can't please everyone all the time. Some people have very unrealistic demands and feel that they should never have to take responsability for their car.
I too could write a book about customers and the things I see everyday that are unbelievable.
How about the guy who had a '04 Cav who is a miner that was driving on a quarry road, hit a rock that punctured his tire and demanded that GM warranty his tire? "No rock should ever put a hole in a tire!" he said. I guess when they use explosives to blow up the quarries, you NEVER see sharp rocks. They explode with smooth edges?
Or, from last Friday, "The paint on my 03 Avalanche is peeling on the hood." I look at it, clearly is rock chips, with mud and dust all over the vehicle. You tell me this person doesn’t travel behind someone and rocks don’t fly up and chip the paint?
And the best one to date. 3 months ago, a 99 Vette was towed in. He said he drove through 6 inches of water, yet the airbox is full of water, the HOLE in the side of the block near the oil filter spurts out water when you crank it. He called me everything in the book and claimed this is GM's fault! They should warranty the engine. "You should be able to drive through 6 inches of water!!!" Lets see, you are about 4 years out of warranty and have 83,000 on your vehicle, PLUS drive it in a lake... I think you get my point.
Yes, and somehow, I still have to be professional and take pride in my job dealing with people like this. Unfortunately, these guys are not alone. Apparently, they breed like rabbits, because they are everywhere!
[ 10. June 2004, 06:27 AM: Message edited by: SS 891 ]
Posted by SS 891 (Member # 1968) on :
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: ...that's OK, I'll get my own beer
Sorry.. I will buy you one too.. See ya in BG with your beer! Posted by SS 891 (Member # 1968) on :
Also, after checking this TSB here at the dealership, there has been an update. The revision is to correct a parts number. The new TSB number is #03-08-98-001A. Revision date is: 04/02/03
The correct part number for the "Applique Quarter Panel Upper Left" is 10240165.
I would scan this for everyone, but I don't have a scanner. So mark your copies accordingly.
[ 10. June 2004, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: SS 891 ]
Posted by el ess1 (Member # 1544) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS 891: Also, after checking this TSB here at the dealership, there has been an update. The revision is to correct a parts number. The new TSB number is #03-08-98-001A. Revision date is: 04/02/03
The correct part number for the "Applique Quarter Panel Upper Left" is 10240165.
I would scan this for everyone, but I don't have a scanner. So mark your copies accordingly.
Ok, this might sound like a dumb question, but exactly which part is this "applique" on the quarter panel?
[ 10. June 2004, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: el ess1 ]
Posted by SS 891 (Member # 1968) on :
The Applique is the "triangle" piece where the door window/halo/rear quarter meets.
[ 10. June 2004, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: SS 891 ]
Posted by el ess1 (Member # 1544) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS 891: The Applique is the "triangle" piece where the door window/halo/rear quarter meets.
Cool. That's what I figured it might be, but I wasn't quite sure. You know how great the GM parts descriptions are sometimes. A decal or emblem could also be an applique, according to their standards. Posted by SS 891 (Member # 1968) on :
heh yep!
Posted by el ess1 (Member # 1544) on :
What's even more amazing, is the prices I got from GMpartsdirect.com for those little pieces. Mirror image parts. You'd think they'd be the same price. Anyway, at least the 165 number does show a picture of the triangle piece.
10240165 APPLIQUE- $5.25, lists for $8.90
10240164 APPLIQUE- $3.17, lists for $5.37
Note: If you order 7 per side on the same order from gmpartsdirect.com, total prices would be average of about $5.15 each delivered (about $13 S&H for 14 pieces), which is your best price without ordering a truckload. 8 or more each side, the shipping goes up.
10253596 PANEL-RF (hardtop)- $375.19, list $635.92
GMpartsdirect.com shipped to your location- $450.23
10254708 PANEL-RF (T-top)- $267.00, list $452.54
GMpartsdirect.com shipped to your location- $320.40
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
Now if I could only get to BG I could get a free beer Posted by CK-1 99SS (Member # 93) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hawk196:
quote:Originally posted by CK-1 99SS: I too have just realized that I have this problem.. I was in a car show this past weekend and the sun was baking down on it all day.. Over the period of the 10 hours i was out there the bubbling got worse and worse to the point that I could see all the points of where the glue was.. I was shocked to say the least. I could actually run my hand over the bubbles and feel the bumps all over my roof... My car has never done this before. I am not sure what I am going to do about this as my car is out of warranty.. Its not like it is ever parked outside except for car shows.. On a better note though when I took my car home and put it in the garage the roof cooled down and most of the bubbles went down but there are some still there.. This now puts me in a dilema as what to do about it.. I guess I will wait and see what it looks like next time it is out...
What should I do???
I do know of the TSB and have for awhile now.. I just figured I was lucky enough not to have it...
You also have a '99. How many miles do you have on yours?
Tom
I have 52000 on it right now.... Posted by Hawk196 (Member # 2175) on :
quote:Originally posted by CK-1 99SS:
quote:Originally posted by Hawk196:
quote:Originally posted by CK-1 99SS: I too have just realized that I have this problem.. I was in a car show this past weekend and the sun was baking down on it all day.. Over the period of the 10 hours i was out there the bubbling got worse and worse to the point that I could see all the points of where the glue was.. I was shocked to say the least. I could actually run my hand over the bubbles and feel the bumps all over my roof... My car has never done this before. I am not sure what I am going to do about this as my car is out of warranty.. Its not like it is ever parked outside except for car shows.. On a better note though when I took my car home and put it in the garage the roof cooled down and most of the bubbles went down but there are some still there.. This now puts me in a dilema as what to do about it.. I guess I will wait and see what it looks like next time it is out...
What should I do???
I do know of the TSB and have for awhile now.. I just figured I was lucky enough not to have it...
You also have a '99. How many miles do you have on yours?
Tom
I have 52000 on it right now....
Oh, I only have like 14000 on my Hawk. I did notice that its not 'bubbling', but more of a ripple (like bad orange peel) thats on the front part of the panel.
Tom
Posted by CamaroSCG (Member # 1591) on :
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: ...that's OK, I'll get my own beer
Get one for me while you're up!
There are good and bad GM dealers out there, just like there are good and bad people in the world. When I went shopping for my SS, my local GM saleperson told me "Well, we usually like to see about a $1200 profit on these. There's also the $600 hold-back charge". He wanted me to pay the $600 "hold-back" charge and I'm pretty sure that money is between GM and the dealer. $1200 profit! I paid $400 over cost by going to a dealer in PA, 45 min. away. So I won't go to that dealer in DE that tried to line his pocket. I've had good service with the PA dealer where I brought the car, but when it came time to rebuild the M6 tranny and install some better parts, I went with Doug N. advice and took it to Tom Oats (they have a Z-28 racing team) and got excellent service from them (also on other issues). My dealer might have done a good job, but I didn't know for sure, so I went with the good word of mouth. That's my story and I'm sticking with it! Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hawk196:
quote:Originally posted by CK-1 99SS:
quote:Originally posted by Hawk196:
quote:Originally posted by CK-1 99SS: I too have just realized that I have this problem.. I was in a car show this past weekend and the sun was baking down on it all day.. Over the period of the 10 hours i was out there the bubbling got worse and worse to the point that I could see all the points of where the glue was.. I was shocked to say the least. I could actually run my hand over the bubbles and feel the bumps all over my roof... My car has never done this before. I am not sure what I am going to do about this as my car is out of warranty.. Its not like it is ever parked outside except for car shows.. On a better note though when I took my car home and put it in the garage the roof cooled down and most of the bubbles went down but there are some still there.. This now puts me in a dilema as what to do about it.. I guess I will wait and see what it looks like next time it is out...
What should I do???
I do know of the TSB and have for awhile now.. I just figured I was lucky enough not to have it...
You also have a '99. How many miles do you have on yours?
Tom
I have 52000 on it right now....
Oh, I only have like 14000 on my Hawk. I did notice that its not 'bubbling', but more of a ripple (like bad orange peel) thats on the front part of the panel.
Tom
Check the illustration in the PDF link given in my previous response. If your "ripples" are in the location that they apply the glue, then you are already experiencing the beginning of the problem. That's the way mine looked at first too. Then they started to bubble.
Posted by MMMM_ERT (Member # 1599) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS 891:
quote:Originally posted by MMMM_ERT: Note that I said "most"....
You did say "most" in the paragraph above this comment: "No matter how nice, knowledgeable you are, the dealer is gonna stick it to you anyway."
Although your resume sounds impressive, it sounds like to me, you didn't deal with the "general public", it was business to business. So I can understand how you would have difficulty in placing yourself in my "shoes".
This could go on and on for months. The point is, it was not my job to build the car. It is my job however, to make sure that the customer is "completely satisfied" and more than 97% of MY customers sre. You can't please everyone all the time. Some people have very unrealistic demands and feel that they should never have to take responsability for their car.
I too could write a book about customers and the things I see everyday that are unbelievable.
How about the guy who had a '04 Cav who is a miner that was driving on a quarry road, hit a rock that punctured his tire and demanded that GM warranty his tire? "No rock should ever put a hole in a tire!" he said. I guess when they use explosives to blow up the quarries, you NEVER see sharp rocks. They explode with smooth edges?
Or, from last Friday, "The paint on my 03 Avalanche is peeling on the hood." I look at it, clearly is rock chips, with mud and dust all over the vehicle. You tell me this person doesn’t travel behind someone and rocks don’t fly up and chip the paint?
And the best one to date. 3 months ago, a 99 Vette was towed in. He said he drove through 6 inches of water, yet the airbox is full of water, the HOLE in the side of the block near the oil filter spurts out water when you crank it. He called me everything in the book and claimed this is GM's fault! They should warranty the engine. "You should be able to drive through 6 inches of water!!!" Lets see, you are about 4 years out of warranty and have 83,000 on your vehicle, PLUS drive it in a lake... I think you get my point.
Yes, and somehow, I still have to be professional and take pride in my job dealing with people like this. Unfortunately, these guys are not alone. Apparently, they breed like rabbits, because they are everywhere!
Your stories above are about idiots who are the type of people who will try anything to get a dealer to fix something that they broke/damaged themselves. People who cannot take personal responsibility for themselves.
What about the valid and quite common problems with vehicles that are well documented on every one of these f-body boards. The problems that one dealer fixes and another tells you to take a hike. I hold GM accountable, as it is their responsiblity to assure that the cars are repaired correctly and equally across the board from one dealer to the next.
You are right...I don't deal with the general public...I count my blessings for that.
I can also assure you...I have never gone to any dealer with an unreasonable or invalid request.
Posted by JohnS (Member # 1073) on :
I'm really disappointed that GM hasn't come out with a consistent policy on implementing the paint bubbling defect repair. Having had to pay for my repair outside of the warranty period, but hearing that others have had their repair paid for by GM, is very frustrating.
Having said that, I'm not surprised that no official public policy has been published by GM (other than the TSB), due to the large number of cars affected, the varying time frames when the bubbles are being detected (you never know when the bubbles will first appear), and the associated high cost of all the repairs. Posted by Camaro_Woody (Member # 1619) on :
How likely is it that some of the glue can get on the hood? I have this problem, but it is where the driver side A pillar meets the hood, on the hood. There is a ripple that looks like a wave of clear coat, then behind that twords the pillar there is bubbles. As of yet they have not made it all the way to oozing out.
Posted by SS 891 (Member # 1968) on :
quote:Originally posted by MMMM_ERT:
What about the valid and quite common problems with vehicles that are well documented on every one of these f-body boards. The problems that one dealer fixes and another tells you to take a hike. I hold GM accountable, as it is their responsiblity to assure that the cars are repaired correctly and equally across the board from one dealer to the next.
In a perfect world, this would be the case. I apologize that you have been treated poorly. I am sure if you would have delt with me, your feelings would be different.
Posted by Hawk196 (Member # 2175) on :
quote:Originally posted by JohnS: I'm really disappointed that GM hasn't come out with a consistent policy on implementing the paint bubbling defect repair. Having had to pay for my repair outside of the warranty period, but hearing that others have had their repair paid for by GM, is very frustrating.
Having said that, I'm not surprised that no official public policy has been published by GM (other than the TSB), due to the large number of cars affected, the varying time frames when the bubbles are being detected (you never know when the bubbles will first appear), and the associated high cost of all the repairs.
John, how much did the shop you used charge to fix it???
Tom
Posted by Y2KSS1363 (Member # 1564) on :
quote:Originally posted by SSHEETS: Now if I could only get to BG I could get a free beer
You and me, both, Tim!!!
Posted by MMMM_ERT (Member # 1599) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS 891: I apologize that you have been treated poorly. I am sure if you would have delt with me, your feelings would be different. [/QB]
Its not your place to apologize..but I appreciate it none the less.
I can only speak for my experiences here all over California...it sure sounds like there are much better GM. dealers everywhere else.
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
quote:Originally posted by Camaro_Woody: How likely is it that some of the glue can get on the hood? I have this problem, but it is where the driver side A pillar meets the hood, on the hood. There is a ripple that looks like a wave of clear coat, then behind that twords the pillar there is bubbles. As of yet they have not made it all the way to oozing out.
If you have an SS, any warranty issues would likely have to be approved by SLP Engineering themselves. I dont know how they make the hood, but I suppose it's likely that the outer and inner shell are glued together somehow. The problem with the roof panels is caused by gasses from the glue passing right thru the SMC (Sheet Molded Compound) causing the paint to bubble. Their solution to the problem was to be sure the INSIDE of the new SMC panel is at least primered and sealed before glue is installed. You might try calling SLP and explaining your problem.
Posted by JohnS (Member # 1073) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hawk196: John, how much did the shop you used charge to fix it???
Tom;
You have mail.
Posted by SSHEETS (Member # 1989) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS_CarGuy:
quote:Originally posted by Camaro_Woody: How likely is it that some of the glue can get on the hood? I have this problem, but it is where the driver side A pillar meets the hood, on the hood. There is a ripple that looks like a wave of clear coat, then behind that twords the pillar there is bubbles. As of yet they have not made it all the way to oozing out.
If you have an SS, any warranty issues would likely have to be approved by SLP Engineering themselves. I dont know how they make the hood, but I suppose it's likely that the outer and inner shell are glued together somehow. The problem with the roof panels is caused by gasses from the glue passing right thru the SMC (Sheet Molded Compound) causing the paint to bubble. Their solution to the problem was to be sure the INSIDE of the new SMC panel is at least primered and sealed before glue is installed. You might try calling SLP and explaining your problem.
Only SLP content goes through SLP for approval...when my CME had an issue SLP treated me great too. Posted by Camaro_Woody (Member # 1619) on :
quote:Originally posted by SS_CarGuy:
quote:Originally posted by Camaro_Woody: How likely is it that some of the glue can get on the hood? I have this problem, but it is where the driver side A pillar meets the hood, on the hood. There is a ripple that looks like a wave of clear coat, then behind that twords the pillar there is bubbles. As of yet they have not made it all the way to oozing out.
If you have an SS, any warranty issues would likely have to be approved by SLP Engineering themselves. I dont know how they make the hood, but I suppose it's likely that the outer and inner shell are glued together somehow. The problem with the roof panels is caused by gasses from the glue passing right thru the SMC (Sheet Molded Compound) causing the paint to bubble. Their solution to the problem was to be sure the INSIDE of the new SMC panel is at least primered and sealed before glue is installed. You might try calling SLP and explaining your problem.
This it the third time this has happened. SLP says it is a GM hood and they have to take care of it. It is a composite hood, so maybe the glue has something to do with it. So they primer the roof pannel first then paint it? Do you think that painting it with more primer(been painted 2 times already) would take care of it?
Posted by SS_CarGuy (Member # 2065) on :
On the roof panel the primer is put on the UNDERSIDE of the panel. I don't know what could be done about the hood.
Posted by Mike2001SS (Member # 2088) on :
I don't think my vert will have this problem at least
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
while you wait ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Most of them have no clue about the car's internals. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
) and show the work he had completed. He was extremely polite and professional.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
