They've (SLP) been doing nothing but complaining about how I used GM's logos or names without the licensing but now the caliper decals aren't or haven't been the issue? Well it's pretty obvious what the issue is then, isn't it? It wasn't a problem until I started making something that SLP makes and sells. Gee... SLP sells centercaps and dashplates! Does anyone else see the connection?

Yes, very obvious indeed. It's okay until someone competes with them, they maybe lose a few sales, then suddenly become inspired by their crusade to save GM from the evil Mark IXZD 150. It's no wonder Dave censored any hint of GMMG or chambered exhaust systems after some guy left SLP to go start his own company and refused to consider allowing me back after many attempts by other members to persuade him to do so. He holds grudges.

Why don't you guys (Jeff or Dave) just admit that it's only about the competition? You don't give a crap about the licensing issue or your forum members. That's why it never mattered to you them that I was proceeding with the licensing without waiting for GM to request it. It was never about that. It's about the bottom line and that it's "their" forum. It didn't even matter that I wasn't actually doing any more "selling" on their board (I hadn't since Dave asked me not to). All it took was someone else to mention or show off some items that competed with theirs for them to ban me and censor any mention of me on their precious forum.

It's a real shame that after all the years of cyber "friendship" it can all come crashing down over a few of your stupid centercap and Camaro SS dashplates sales? Give me a break! So now over a few bucks you go out of your way to make an enemy out of a fellow Chevy enthusiast? That's really lame.

It's amazing, isn't it? We've been chatting for years on the forum. So what happens when we happen to meet at an event? Are you guys going to turn your noses up at me or turn your back on me when you find out that you're meeting the evil Mark IXZD 150? Are you going to refuse a handshake? How far will you go with this?

What a shame. Well I'm not going to hold a grudge despite their hostility towards me. I'm better than that. I'd also like to publicly ask everyone else on all the forums to forgive me for coming up with some ideas to sell to you to help you customize your cars which in turn, helped me to customize mine. It's always been about the people I meet and the cars we drive.

p.s. I challenge you NOT to lock this thread. Let's see what others think about it. You know, the people who make up these forums. The people who really matter!

[ 13 May 2002: Message edited by: Mark IXZD 150 ]

I have watched all this unfold over the months and I can say that for as much as I like SLP and their products, I really don't understand their issue with this. The comments that have been made by Jeff and Dave are typically vague and erratic, never focusing on EXACTLY what the issue is or explaining everything (or anything for that matter). Perhaps if they had actually taken the time to explain their side of things COMPLETELY then everyone, including you, could be satisfied with their decisions.

It's a shame you cannot contribute to their board anymore. You have a beautiful car and bring a lot of knowledge, insight, and more than that, creativity and attention to detail when it comes to our vehicles. You inspire many people to make their cars better. You obviously began making something that they have no intention of making (caliper decals) and I don't quite get why they NOW make such a big deal of it when it began so long ago. Now that you have speculated why this is and since we don't have anything other than their vague commentary to go by, I have to consider what you are saying as a strong possibility.

I also read the thread (the one you refer to above) this morning with interest. After all, this should be a good place to get this out in the air since there are many members who like SLP in addition to many people who have purchased your products. The thread contained no heated exchange, no verbal assaults. Just talking about a supposed "problem" and the thread was locked. I for one, would like to know which moderator locked it, because in my opinion, there was no reason to lock it.

I can say that I do support Mark. As I said above, until SLP wants to actually SAY what their problem is, I do not have anything to go by. Mark has been very open about the whole subject, has told us all about the situation and SLP has treated it like a matter of national security. I hope that they either speak out or just say NOTHING at all because the behavior they have shown thus far is very childish to say the least.

[ 13 May 2002: Message edited by: mhayman ]

Compete with SLP and get banned.

GMMG is a no no, and now so is Mark.

It is a shame, that something so simple and petty has been blown out of porportion. If some GOOD explaining was done maybe it would go away, but is doesn't.

They lock threads with just the mention of Mark, my signature got changed and locked by SLP cause I mention Mark. Funny thing though, they changed my city to Mark's.

On the other hand I think it needs to be better defined when it comes to issues like the Camaro decals. One could ask if the word "Camaro" is never to be used in any product without a license? IOW, do we need to put a ® mark by every use of the word Camaro? I know I'm not being very clear here, but I hope the concept comes thru.

Another, possibly bad example, would be magazine use of the word (or for that matter images) "Camaro" on their cover.....this is all based on the concept of the word "Camaro" being used for compensation for a product.

The decal issue, to me anyway, boils down to Mark's use of very similar fonts as GM did to spell out "Camaro", etc...

Perhaps a private meeting needs to be arranged with the F-Bodfather and Joey Red

Here's a good question... Why didn't someone from SLP actually offer up the suggestion earlier that I make the items "official GM" and maybe even help by giving me a contact name or something to get the items licensed? Why not help rather than force me into exile? They obviously have the names and methods for licensing stuff. If that was really the issue, why not help me or point me in the right direction? No, instead they chose to make threats, banned me, delete any mention of me... like I had done something personal to them.

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve da Wrench:
. . . I just wish he would have gotten ahold of GM and got the proper licensing done prior to doing all of his stuff. . .

---

Work is being done to complete this as we speak. Mark is working with GM's consultant to make all legit. This was origianlly a simple little hobby of Marks, that has turned out pretty good interest. It would have been very costly to ge the licensing and then have the items flop.

I'm not certain what this is all about, but from this thread and the other locked thread, I surmise that some technical aspects of product licensing were overlooked by an enthusiast who took a home made product to another level. It was not done with malice, but more in ignorance.

Let's hope all parties can work out a solution and move forward from here. Don't dwell in the past, it can not be changed. We all learn from the past, so as to avoid the same error in the future.

Now, having said all that, I find it hard to believe that the FBodfather or Dave would be so intensely harsh to anyone for no reason. I do not know Mark but I assume he is a nice guy. Something must have happened that creating a misunderstanding or something. I know Scott and Dave too well not to support them and find it hard to believe that they are just attacking for no reason. On a personal level I just know them well enough to feel they wouldn't do that and on a professional level, no one would be as successful as they have been by just fighting with people that are enthusiastic about their products. Just read all the threads about how Scott treats the owners of his children!

Just like if I went into buisness and started printing stickers that said 'Made by Mark IXZD 150'. I have the chance to injure your name, and I'm taking money away from you. Thats the same principle that GM and SLP are doing to protect thier names. which means they both dont want to be associated with possibly poor quality which leads to a poor image which inturn causes you to lose money due to lost sales.

(note I'm not saying you do or dont have poor products)

Another example is cloned cars. how many of you have seen a cloned SS and get mad about it. those clones directly cost you money if you ever try to do a trade in. ever talk to somebody that got suckered into a cloned SS see how they feel about an unliscensed product.

And SLP's board is just that SLP's board. If you had a company making widgets, would you let another company sell widgets accesories on it without getting any money in return.

I also think you lucky with getting just banned from SLP's board. You are clearly violating GM copyright.

quote:

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Originally posted by DanA_F99_1977:

Now, having said all that, I find it hard to believe that the FBodfather or Dave would be so intensely harsh to anyone for no reason. I do not know Mark but I assume he is a nice guy. Something must have happened that creating a misunderstanding or something. I know Scott and Dave too well not to support them and find it hard to believe that they are just attacking for no reason. On a personal level I just know them well enough to feel they wouldn't do that and on a professional level, no one would be as successful as they have been by just fighting with people that are enthusiastic about their products. Just read all the threads about how Scott treats the owners of his children!

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail leaving behind ego's and our small group can all get along.
Respectfully,
Happy_Dan

---

Just to clarify:

Maybe you should pick up the phone and call Dave?

This is a matter concerning the SLP board. Not the SSOAs, or LS1.com's, or any other enthusiast board.

I dont want to stick my nose where it doesnt belong, but I can assure you it had nothing to do with money or stealing business from SLP. That is why I strongly suggest you contact Dave.

quote:

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Originally posted by chrisL:
Mark,

Maybe you should pick up the phone and call Dave?

This is a matter concerning the SLP board. Not the SSOAs, or LS1.com's, or any other enthusiast board.

I dont want to stick my nose where it doesnt belong, but I can assure you it had nothing to do with money or stealing business from SLP. That is why I strongly suggest you contact Dave.

Clearly, from the posts here and on the other boards, the two of you are not on the same page over this situation.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark IXZD 150:

That's actually not bad idea. Do you think he'll talk to me?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mark IXZD 150:

That's actually not bad idea. Do you think he'll talk to me? What would we do if we didn't have all this DRAMA though?!

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We can do without the drama.

quote:

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Originally posted by DanA_F99_1977:
It has been interesting being an outsider looking in! It has been pretty boring lately.

Hopefully, it will all get worked out though.
Maybe we served a purpose here by getting some conversation going and it will get solved to everyone's satisfaction. We can take some pleasure in knowing we helped.

---

Dave, if you would like to come to some understanding or completion regarding this, I'd like to talk to you. If you want to talk to me about it, you have my e-mail address. Please send me your number. That way I'll know that you're open to a discussion. Afterall, since your private message to me (a loooong time ago) asking me to "move it to the classifieds section" there has been no further correspondence between us. Actually, just before you banned me you asked me to reduce the size of my avatar.

If GM was as upset as Dave makes it seem then why havent they sent Mark or his vendor a cease and dissit letter?? Its not like he is hard to find or locate???

Also SLP recently deleted a thread wishing Mark a happy birthday.. how did this violate GM licensing??? It seem a tad bit vindictive

So using Daves/JeffYs arguments then once Mark has the licensing worked out and is square with GM then they have NO problem with his products???

The policy over at the SLP board has never been spelled out and has remained vague.. Can I show a picture of my car if an unlicensed product can be seen in the picture? Even if I make NO mention of selling it??

Are my replica Z06 wheels licensed? My SLP sticker?

(732) 240-3696 x126

quote:

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Originally posted by poSSum:

We can do without the drama.

If you haven't actually talked to Dave I'd also encourage you to make the call ... and JeffY ... ya just gotta know him to appreciate him

---

i support this 100%.
also ...poSSum's right about jeff... gr8 guy, he's just doing his job thats all.

quote:

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Originally posted by SStylez:
The thing I have a problem with is that this forum is supposed to be for SSOA members who paid $40 to join & when someones post gets locked that is a SSOA member & PAID to be a member it's absurd that one of their posts be locked. It was not as if he said something illegal or disgusting. I didn't know I paid $40 to SLP, I thought I paid $40 to SSOA. Mark should be able to say anything he wants about SLP & not have his post locked. If this continues why pay the money? For what, to censor us?!

---

Although I do not know or understand everything going on regarding Mark's decals (I did not lock that thread), I do need to clarify some statements made here.

The initial $40 that every member has paid (and $10 yearly dues renewal after the first 2 years)to the SSOA does NOT pay for the message forum. That is paid for and run by J.R. Mayer. He was gracious enough to provide this forum for the SSOA to use for communication and comraderie.
It's his forum that we are guests on.
Censorship of a post is up to the moderators for whatever reasons they give, and is not related to the dues you pay to be a member of the SSOA.

Your $40 membership is broken down as a $20 administration fee and $20 for your first two years of dues, and pays for:

-Registration & renewal costs of our domains http://www.camaroSSOA.org and http://www.SSOA.net

-Set up fees for everything we have printed with graphics, including....letterhead, brochures, membership applications, antenna flags, banners, plate frames, stickers, decals, wearables, etc.

-Production of everything mentioned above.

-Envelopes & mailers.

-Bubble wrap for our license plate frames.

-Postage & shipping fees.

-Photocopies & printing.

The SSOA had to get permission to use GM's trademarked logos and symbols......So should anyone else using them, whether they profit from it or not.

quote:

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Originally posted by Steven2000SS:
Also SLP recently deleted a thread wishing Mark a happy birthday.. how did this violate GM licensing??? It seem a tad bit vindictive.

---

Steve, obvioulsy you never called David yesterday as you had said you would. Lets keep the SLP related stuff off the other boards.... at a minimum until you've taken the opportunity to discuss it with Dave.

There are clearly 2 sides to this story. Until the principles work it out, keep the dirty laundry in the hamper where it belongs. Stop airing it out on all the other boards.

No one here has anything to do with it, so why bring it up?

Personally, I saw no sense in posting a birthday message on a board where Mark was banned. From my seat, that post was there more to stir things up than to wish Mark a happy birthday.

quote:

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Originally posted by chrisL:

Personally, I saw no sense in posting a birthday message on a board where Mark was banned. From my seat, that post was there more to stir things up than to wish Mark a happy birthday.

If I were a moderator on the SLP board, I would have deleted it too.

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Why not? Being banned doesn't mean I can't go there to read stuff. It just means I can't post. Hey, I have friends that support me. If Dave doesn't like them posting a birthday message to me he certainly has the power to ban them too. Hey, why not just ban everyone? www.ls1tech.com is a great board. Everyone can go there instead.

quote:

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Originally posted by chrisL:

Steve, obvioulsy you never called David yesterday as you had said you would. Lets keep the SLP related stuff off the other boards.... at a minimum until you've taken the opportunity to discuss it with Dave.

There are clearly 2 sides to this story. Until the principles work it out, keep the dirty laundry in the hamper where it belongs. Stop airing it out on all the other boards.

No one here has anything to do with it, so why bring it up?

Personally, I saw no sense in posting a birthday message on a board where Mark was banned. From my seat, that post was there more to stir things up than to wish Mark a happy birthday.

If I were a moderator on the SLP board, I would have deleted it too.

---

First, I tried to call Dave but he was in a meeting.. He said to call the next day but I was on a plane to Houston all day.. I just got back today and was planning to call him tomorrow..

And while Mark couldnt post to the board he could read it.. I consider Mark a friend and he was a large contributor to the SLP board, I guess were supposed to forget all that because of the merchandise issue.. More "trouble" was stired because they deleted it.. it was a one day post and would have fallen off the page into oblivion but there seems to a vindictiveness in deleting it..

So is Mark not allowed to attend an SLP event? If his car is in a picture does it have to be edited out before its posted? Where does it end? And this is almost like the SLP board.. look at the moderators for crying out loud.. Its not like I put that comment in a thread about cam selection

Besides you cant air "dirty laundry" at the SLP board because its not discussed.. just deleted or locked..