I know GM is now sponsoring Justin Bell and Bondurant, but why pull the plug on Rupert and crew? SThey've done a really fine job at promoting Corvette and Camaro and really represent GM positively.
I've been to both Level 1 and Level 2 (even had the opportunity to meet the FBodFather during Level 2) and the instruction was great.
Anyway -- just wondering what the real story is. I think this is a really disappointing situation.
-------------------- Randy V. SSOA F99-4414 '99 Pewter SS 6 spd, T-tops, grey cloth B&M Ripper w/SLP knob, BMR SFCs, TA Diff Cover & stud kit Posts: 99 | From: Arvada, CO | Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
Well I signed. Haven't been there but from hearing you guys talk about it, it sounds like a worthwhile commitment for GM.
Posts: 3403 | From: Woodcliff Lake, NJ, USA | Registered: Dec 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
There's much more to this story than is publicly known......just suffice it to say.....some people are their own worst enemy......too bad though, I loved it out there......... Posts: 46 | From: Lost | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
Here's #220. Anyone dare to comment. This is completely contrary to what Scott told us happens to the cars.
quote: It is unfortunate that the situation arose in the first place but after researching the problem, I truly believe the local dealer, which received Rupert’s return fleet of 4 Z06’s, compounded the situation most unfairly. After they cannibalized the three Z06’s they wanted for their employees, they then sold the remaining unit to an unsuspecting soul who got the worst wheels, tires, etc of all four cars returned. This person was not told he was buying a car that was supposed to go to auction rather than be sold as a retail unit. When he complained to the corporate office, the dealer simply pointed at Rupert and said “He did it.” Rupert’s school has only complemented the entire Corvette experience for thousands and has no doubt resulted in many new and return sales for GM. I’m sure that with a little patience, calmer heads will prevail. Can we talk?
Posts: 4222 | From: Winnipeg MB CA | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Doug Harden: There's much more to this story than is publicly known......just suffice it to say.....some people are their own worst enemy......too bad though, I loved it out there.........
I think this may go for GM to .... they're just too big to realize it.
I think GM is trying to make it clear to us that the days of them offering affordable performance are over ....
posted
I attended the school as well, thought it was great, (especially since my brother lives out there). As for the 'plug being pulled' by GM, ...I(like most of us) don't know all the facts, but knowing some of the people involved (without saying much), ...some people bring this upon themselves.
Posts: 1046 | From: Pine Bush, NY USA | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
That petition has as much chance for success as the one did to keep the F-car around. GM is in the business of business, and it was a business decision.
Posts: 1163 | From: Rochester Hills, Mi | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by JeffY: That petition has as much chance for success as the one did to keep the F-car around. GM is in the business of business, and it was a business decision.
quote:Originally posted by JeffY: That petition has as much chance for success as the one did to keep the F-car around. GM is in the business of business, and it was a business decision.
Agreed - however corporations still like feedback from it's customers. Perhaps with the 5th Gen F body that GM and Rupert can reconcile their differences and kiss and make up. Stranger things have happend!
Posts: 5558 | From: Windsor, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by JeffY: That petition has as much chance for success as the one did to keep the F-car around. GM is in the business of business, and it was a business decision.
What Hawkeye said.
We're taking the time to let the general know what we think before we talk with our wallet.
If buying cars were "business" decisions for us most of us would be driving Kias. Posts: 4222 | From: Winnipeg MB CA | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
I just spent half an hour on the phone with Rupert to see where he was at with the school and all.
It's his intention to continue to offer his excellent programs at affordable prices even if he has to buy his own cars .... just like he did in 1993 when he started the school.
I'd really like to hear what misdeed(s)caused the cold shoulder treatment from GM.
(204)988-2191
[ 28. February 2003, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: poSSum ]
Posts: 4222 | From: Winnipeg MB CA | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
You know, Hawkeye and Possum are cool headed, logical adults. I have to agree with them. We respect that that GM has to make business decisions. We have been a small market, but I think GM has to want to know what people like me think. It's not jsut about the F-Body! I also own a Silverado, a Trailblazer and a Z06. I think the general would be interested at why I am a loyal customer. I would really love to know the story, I would be happy to hear it confidentially and off the record. If wrong deeds were done, I would have to not support the wrong doers business. Maybe bad grammer but a fact. To me integrity and ethics are of the utmost importance. If those are breached, I would like to know and I cannot support the company that breached that standard. One of the reasons I like this group is the quality of people that hang here. One of the reasons that I hold the FBodfather in such high esteem is that he shown me he has these standards as well. This is sad. Bragg-Smith does a great job, GM made a great car, we are great fans and enthusiasts, what happened is unfortunate no matter what it is. I just hope it gets repaired.
Posts: 5946 | From: Litchfield, NH, USA | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
I have no idea what happened. Scott probably is the only one who knows and he probably can't say without having to kill us all after he tells us! I do know, from past experience, that variuos schools that GM supported, way before BS ( I went to a few on the General's dime! Had to keep going till I got it right.), changed frequently, depending who was in charge of what budget and program. With all of the changes at GM management ( Scott is a good example), I'm not suprised at this type of a change. You guys know more about what happened than I do. I would just guess that internal politics would be the main reason. And with all of the new performance vehicles and specialty vehicles and ??? that the General is bringing out, who knows what will happen in the future.
Posts: 1163 | From: Rochester Hills, Mi | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
Here's #220. Anyone dare to comment. This is completely contrary to what Scott told us happens to the cars.
quote: It is unfortunate that the situation arose in the first place but after researching the problem, I truly believe the local dealer, which received Rupert’s return fleet of 4 Z06’s, compounded the situation most unfairly. After they cannibalized the three Z06’s they wanted for their employees, they then sold the remaining unit to an unsuspecting soul who got the worst wheels, tires, etc of all four cars returned. This person was not told he was buying a car that was supposed to go to auction rather than be sold as a retail unit. When he complained to the corporate office, the dealer simply pointed at Rupert and said “He did it.” Rupert’s school has only complemented the entire Corvette experience for thousands and has no doubt resulted in many new and return sales for GM. I’m sure that with a little patience, calmer heads will prevail. Can we talk?
This is in fact one of the issues between GM & Rupert. There are others, some of which I have addressed extensively on the Z06 site.
Someone commented the petition doesn't stand a chance of succeeding. I partially believed that when I started the petition. Judging how certain people have reacted tells me someone is listening. I would simply like Rupert to have an opportunity to sit down with Bob Lutz and discuss all of the issues. If they could do that I think it could be resolved. I have emailed this sentiment to Bob Lutz a few days ago.
Thanks for spreading the word. I really appreciate it.
posted
Gotta agree with Dan. It's hard to make a decision without knowing all of the facts, and only a few people out there probably know the real deal.
I also hope GM is listening to its customers, no matter how large or small that group may be. The decision to kill the f-body vs. the decision to sponsor a school such as Bragg-Smith seem like radically different financial propositions to me. Especially when one considers that school creates a positive image of the General.
I also agree this sounds like a lot of politics, which, unfortunately, you can never get away from.
Posts: 99 | From: Arvada, CO | Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
This is not the type of thing Lutz is paid to take care of. The chances of this even getting to his desk is about zero.
Posts: 1163 | From: Rochester Hills, Mi | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
At this moment there are 438 signatures on the petition. If the Bragg-Smith decision causes each person that signed to reduce their purchases of new GM vehicles by only 1, at $25,000 each it will cost GM about $11,000,000 in lost sales. I think this is a very, very conservative estimate of potential lost revenue and does not take lost goodwill into consideration.
As I understand it Rupert is asking for two things:
1) For someone at GM with the power to make a decision to have the courtesy of returning his calls so that he can discuss the situation with them.
2) For GM to leave the current fleet of cars at the school for the spring session, for a reasonable price, so that he can fulfill his obligations to booked students.
What would that cost GM?
[ 28. February 2003, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: poSSum ]
Posts: 4222 | From: Winnipeg MB CA | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
If that's true Art, it seems like a very reasonable position for Rupert to take. I know from the companies I deal with on a daily basis that large corporations often due very strange things - then when you finally get through to the root of the problem - it's usually just one individual that has made a decision.
If we are to make our feelings heard, someone here has to find the individual at GM who made the decision. We know where to find Rupert! Maybe Scott would be allowed to tell us who to contact at GM.
My take on GM is that they are in the business to sell cars and make money. A noble quest for any manufacturer. Their stategy is focusing on where the car market is - trucks, SUV's and sport compacts. The Corvette doesn't seem to fit this strategy, but I'm sure internal politics will prevent GM from changing or cancelling the program for this American icon.
Unfortunately, I'm a dinosaur in the car industry. I like big American V8's, and American muscle and pony cars. But like the real dinosaurs I'm becoming extinct, and GM doesn't seem to care because I'm not part of the majority of car buying public.
So, GM cancelled the F-body, and stopped sponsoring Bragg-Smith. In the big sceme of things, who cares? This probably fits an overall marketing strategy that doesn't include dinosaurs like me. I agree with Jeff, with millions of vehicles potentially being sold in the market, a few hundred signatures on a petition won't matter a bit.
So what does a dinosaur do? He'll drive his f-body as long as he can, enjoying his car and the comradery of the people in the sport. He'll find other driving schools (like the BMW school I attended last year), he'll buy his family vehicles based on quality and performance (either European, Japanese, or even a Chrysler (Jeep's rule)), and he'll continue to lobby for the return of the mid-priced North American GM muscle & pony car. And will GM care? Not a bit, because I'm a dinosaur, and I'm becoming extinct.
posted
1. The Corvette does make money for GM -lots of money. Its been a money loser only once for a very short period of time that I know of, not including the original car. 2. GM is/will be bringing back lots of RWD V8's down the road - not tomorrow or even next year. But sometime in the near future, while most of us will still be in the marketplace, RWD V8's will be available. Its been stated publicly that most of the Cadillac line will be changing over, as is the image that Caddy is trying to convey. There's been announcements about the future Impala and Monte as well. Who knows (???), perhaps even some of your favorite cars MAY be back. Then again, iff I knew all that, I'd buy the lottery ticket with the right numbers on it!
Posts: 1163 | From: Rochester Hills, Mi | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by JeffY: 1. The Corvette does make money for GM -lots of money. Its been a money loser only once for a very short period of time that I know of, not including the original car. 2. GM is/will be bringing back lots of RWD V8's down the road - not tomorrow or even next year. But sometime in the near future, while most of us will still be in the marketplace, RWD V8's will be available.
Thanks, Jeff.
I hope I'm not extinct before we see the new models.
quote:Originally posted by JeffY: 1. The Corvette does make money for GM -lots of money. Its been a money loser only once for a very short period of time that I know of, not including the original car. 2. GM is/will be bringing back lots of RWD V8's down the road - not tomorrow or even next year. But sometime in the near future, while most of us will still be in the marketplace, RWD V8's will be available. Its been stated publicly that most of the Cadillac line will be changing over, as is the image that Caddy is trying to convey. There's been announcements about the future Impala and Monte as well. Who knows (???), perhaps even some of your favorite cars MAY be back. Then again, iff I knew all that, I'd buy the lottery ticket with the right numbers on it!
Will it be purple??
Great to hear from you Jeff, regardless of the circumstance.
Art, I think you are being way too conservative. Most people have more than one car these days. Again, I have 4 GM vehicles. I am sure that GM cares about me and my signature. I could easily buy another brand. I didn't buy them because they are better than others, I didn't buy them because I believe marketing hype. I buy them because of groups like ours and people in GM that represent GM well liek the Scott.
I do hope they can work it out. Jeff. I'm not Bob Lutz and my company is surely not GM, but I am the SR VP of Customer Relations for my company just let me say, I listen and hear every customer. You never know who they are or what the ripple effects can be. They are all treated with great respect and I personally respond to numerous issues, reagardless of the size. I wouldn't expect Bob Lutz to do that for every car buying individual, but I would think he would be interested in informed group that fit the demographics of the largest part of all his markets. Old like me, with a few dollars to spend on those cars, truck and SUV's. This is my one of my few posts lately. Seems sad to talk about the end of the F-Body (at least for now) and the crumbling of a great relationship between GM and Bragg-Smith.
Posts: 5946 | From: Litchfield, NH, USA | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
that GM and Rupert can reconcile their differences and kiss and make up. Stranger things have happend!
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
