posted
The other day I got stopped by a liscence check and was ticketed for no proof of insurance. I had a insurance card that was expired by 3 days. The officer was like,"tis is expired", so I told him to check my plate. He said he didn't have time for that. I told him that according to the Georgia General Asseembly Code 40-6-10 Section 3 I did not have to have a card seeing how after Feb. 1, 2003 an insurance card is no longer a valid proof of insurance and that he MUST check my plate for actual proof, you better make time for it. He told me that was not HIS law. So, I'll see his ass in court on Nov. 17th.
posted
Michigan has a way that the cops can too check the tab on the plate to see if the vehicle has current insurance.Heck,the Secretary of State knows and they don't even ask for it when you renew plate tabs. I too have been pulled over and the cop asked for the proof of insurance and I told him that I just recently renewed the plates.Hope you win in court.
-------------------- Current ride is: 2002 Brickyard 400 35th Anniversary LE convertible #22,SLP build# 0036,35th Anniversary Build #47 EMCC Member #234 www.emcamaro.org WCA Member #197582 MMCC Member #28 NEOCC Member #634 Posts: 5682 | From: Dearborn,Mi. | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I didn't read through that entire code section to see where it says the plate is proof of ins, but it seems as long as you have a current card with you in court or some kind of affidavit from your insurance provider that you were covered at time of citation, that should be sufficient proof.
Posts: 7198 | From: Near Portland, Oregon, USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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I read the statutes based on the website information, and although I'm not a lawyer, there's some questions that need addressing. You're not under oath here or on trial, but it helps us empathize with you in your plight, or possibly show that you're only telling a piece of what really went on.
1. Did you or did you not have expired insurance at the time of the citation? According to the Section C, Paragraph 5 and 6, the officer determines if you have it or not, (supposed to be verified by state records on file, apparently)and if you don't, he has no choice but to issue you a citation and take your license. If that were the case, and you had proof with you that you DID have insurance, I'd bet he wouldn't have written you up for it. If you, indeed, did not actually have insurance at the time of the citation, then it's game over, pay your fine. Or get a darn good lawyer.
2. This part is a bit confusing. What were you stopped for? It seems that they can't just pull you over for no reason, so this may be a secondary citation? Or, because he DID run your plate and found you had no insurance he pulled you for that? He may have already verified that the state says you don't have insurance because of that, and was checking to see if you had a new binder in place for you to get off the hook. You apparently gave him an expired insurance card. Why? You said it wasn't valid proof of insurance anyway. If you got new insurance, why didn't you have any proof in the car if the officer claimed you didn't have any insurance? Although it's not required by law, it may have let the officer know that his state records weren't current and you may have got off.
3. If you did have insurance at the time of the citation, it appears all you need to do is provide proof in court and pay a $25 fine to get your license back. (?why the 25? Is it because you had to provide proof of insurace at the time of the citation and you failed to do so, perhaps? I'm only speculating at the $25 fine reasoning)
4. Here's the advice part. Check the attitude at the courthouse door. A judge isn't going to go in your favor if you try to cite statutes of law back into his/her face. By the way, how did you happen to memorize and cite to the arresting officer the paragraph numbers of the Georgia Assembly Code at the time of the citation? I know I couldn't remember that stuff.
I'm not flaming you here, but there's not enough evidence provided for me to do anything more than wish you luck in court. It sucks to get pinched, but if you were at fault, it's ok to admit it.
-------------------- Mike '02 #6906 pewter/M6/leather/hardtop Posts: 577 | From: Aiken, SC | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Oops, never mind. I reread your post and saw that it was a license checkpoint you were stopped at, apparently. So if the officer made no attempt to check with state records, you may very well be able to break it off in them. I'd also plea to the court to waive the $25 fine to get your license back, providing you did have insurance when you got the ticket, since the arresting officer made no attempt to verify. Check the state records to see if they did have it on file as insurance being in place on that date, and you should be able to do a clean snap when you break it off in them. But be careful, they've had years of experience breaking it off in us, so tread lightly and snap quickly!
Posts: 577 | From: Aiken, SC | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by el ess1: Oops, never mind. I reread your post and saw that it was a license checkpoint you were stopped at, apparently. So if the officer made no attempt to check with state records, you may very well be able to break it off in them. I'd also plea to the court to waive the $25 fine to get your license back, providing you did have insurance when you got the ticket, since the arresting officer made no attempt to verify. Check the state records to see if they did have it on file as insurance being in place on that date, and you should be able to do a clean snap when you break it off in them. But be careful, they've had years of experience breaking it off in us, so tread lightly and snap quickly!
I did have insurance at the time. I showed him 2 years in 6 month increments of reciepts including the payment 2 weeks prior to the expiration of the date. Also, I called the tag office and my insurance company 10 minutes after the citation was issued and confirmed that I had insurance. She said it had went all the way back to 99 at which time I purchaed my truck.
I called to see what the fine would be and a lady told me that $260 for the ticket but If i showed proof that I had insurance the fine would only be $45. State laws says no more than $25, where does the other $20 go?
While I was standing there talking to the officer a lady in a Volvo was being checked by another officer no more than 5 feet from where I was. She had her windows down and told the officer, "here's my license, but I forgot my insurance card." The other officer said, "that's fine, have a nice day."
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2002Z4CSS, You are correct about SOS in MI. If your registration has a PIN number on it you do not have to have proof of insurance to renew your tags. Without a PIN # on regs you have to show proof of ins. But get this, before this year all no proof of ins tickets were dismissable, all you had to do was bring your proof in and ticket was bye bye. But now that MI is in such a fiscal bind no proof is now a fine. Even if you have insurance, but could not locate the proof at time of stop or in some cases didn't find it until after the ticket was written. MI has changed many of our traffic laws this year as to fines, fees, ect. I almost didn't reply to this because it is a sore spot for me. IMHO some people deserve tickets for D.W.H.U.A., amoung other things, but now it seems MI has decided to make coppers tax collectors...
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Glad its not that way here in N.C. aslong as you got drivers Lic and Ins. on record thats all they want to know. Cindy was stopped at a check the other day and and all hers was in her other pocket book so all they did was make her pull over till they called it in and then told her to have a nice day.
-------------------- Willard (Mike) Scott Worldwide Camaro Club North Carolina state Rep. 2001 SS convertible with all SLP opts. Sunset Orange Neutral top Neutral leather http://community.webshots.com/user/wmss Posts: 737 | From: Siler City N.C. | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
In typical legislative fashion, section 40-6-10 tends to contrdict itself. Section 3 clearly stes the following: "On and after February 1, 2003, the requirement under this Code section that proof or evidence of minimum liability insurance be maintained in a motor vehicle at all times during the operation of the vehicle shall not apply to the owner or operator of any vehicle for which the records or data base of the Department of Motor Vehicle Safety indicate that required minimum insurance coverage is currently effective."
That would seem to indicate that you don't need the POI with you. But then section 6 goes on to state: "If a law enforcement officer of this state determines that the owner or operator of a motor vehicle subject to the provisions of this Code section does not have proof or evidence of required minimum insurance coverage, the arresting officer shall issue a uniform traffic citation for operating a motor vehicle without proof of insurance and shall take possession of the driverīs license and forward it to a court of competent jurisdiction. If the court or arresting officer determines that the operator is not the owner, then a uniform traffic citation may be issued to the owner for authorizing the operation of a motor vehicle without proof of insurance."
So that seems to imply that you at least have to prove your the owner to the officer. But the whole thing is written in such an awkward fashion that these two sections tend to contradict each other.
Good luck in court!
-------------------- Dave S Black 2000 Camaro SS Posts: 502 | From: Fort Mill, South Carolina....Charlotte | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote: If a law enforcement officer of this state determines that the owner or operator of a motor vehicle subject to the provisions of this Code section does not have proof or evidence of required minimum insurance coverage
...I didn't read the traffic code wording, ...but it seems to me that the officer "determined" there was no insurance, ...but based his decision on the driver having an expired card. Yet the earlier portion of the law seems to state that after Feb. '03, DMV records(NOT what is possessed by the owner/operator) be the means in which coverage is determined. It seems also that this is exactly what "Stones_SS" was trying to tell the officer... Rightfully (if I'm reading/interpreting things correctly) you shouldn't have to pay anything, ...the problem is you/we have to 'suck it up' when going to court and you'll probably end up paying something. ...state your case, and hope for the best...
Kevin
-------------------- Kevin Kolvenbach, 2002 Sunset Orange SS (#3455), Convertible, Black top, Ebony leather, Bilstein, ASR, 6SP w/Hurst, 345HP Dual-Dual Posts: 1046 | From: Pine Bush, NY USA | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Opie: 2002Z4CSS, You are correct about SOS in MI. If your registration has a PIN number on it you do not have to have proof of insurance to renew your tags. Without a PIN # on regs you have to show proof of ins. But get this, before this year all no proof of ins tickets were dismissable, all you had to do was bring your proof in and ticket was bye bye. But now that MI is in such a fiscal bind no proof is now a fine. Even if you have insurance, but could not locate the proof at time of stop or in some cases didn't find it until after the ticket was written. MI has changed many of our traffic laws this year as to fines, fees, ect. I almost didn't reply to this because it is a sore spot for me. IMHO some people deserve tickets for D.W.H.U.A., amoung other things, but now it seems MI has decided to make coppers tax collectors...
Just a big business! Money making scams.Like you said Michigan is going everything to make extra cash. With the last ticket I recieved,I took it to court and lost.Imagine that! I mentioned to the judge that this was all about revenue for the city.She did not like that reply and told me were the exit door was.
-------------------- Current ride is: 2002 Brickyard 400 35th Anniversary LE convertible #22,SLP build# 0036,35th Anniversary Build #47 EMCC Member #234 www.emcamaro.org WCA Member #197582 MMCC Member #28 NEOCC Member #634 Posts: 5682 | From: Dearborn,Mi. | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Just a big business! Money making scams.Like you said Michigan is going everything to make extra cash. With the last ticket I recieved,I took it to court and lost.Imagine that! I mentioned to the judge that this was all about revenue for the city.She did not like that reply and told me were the exit door was.
BINGO! That's why I'm also gonna ask where the extra $20 dollars is going in the fine. Seeing how state of Ga. says it shall not exceed $25 but Calhoun wants to charge me $45. I'm sure the judge will say it's for court costs. What if I don't go to court?
quote:Originally posted by STONES_SS: BINGO! That's why I'm also gonna ask where the extra $20 dollars is going in the fine. Seeing how state of Ga. says it shall not exceed $25 but Calhoun wants to charge me $45. I'm sure the judge will say it's for court costs. What if I don't go to court?
Oh,if you don't go to court, you'll pay court costs and automatically be guilty. The statute says the fine can be anywhere from $200-$1000 for not having insurance at the time you were cited.
The way I understand the statute is that if you've recently bought the car within a few weeks, and can prove to the arresting officer you DO have insurance at the time of the stop by sales slips and temporary insurance binders, then you're good to go. I guess this is to cover the gap where the DMV may not have your insurance records on file, preventing you from getting a ticket every two days for a month. If you cannot show proof, and the DMV records don't show you have proof of insurance on file, then you are going to be fined something. If you bring your proof to court, but didn't have it with you at the stop, then you pay $25 to get your license back at the courthouse. I guess that $25 is for not being able to prove you had insurance ~during the stop~ over what DMV records show but was able to prove in court that you were covered at the time of the stop. That's how I'm understanding this law.
However, here's one strange thing. You still have your license. Hmmm. I think the cop just wasn't aware of the law changes, but I bet he will be by the time this is done. That $45 fine is the thing that clued me in. According to the law, the fine is $200-1000 if you cannot provide POI and DMV records don't show you to have insurance. So the $45 makes no sense. I think it's like others have said, a money making scam, thinking you'll just pay the fine and go on. The key is to check with DMV and see if proof of insurance was in their files on the date of the ticket. If it was, then you got falsely cited IMO, therefore you shouldn't have to pay a thing.
It's also a risky scam for the driver, because what if you've been paying your insurance premiums all along, but for whatever reason DMV doesn't have your records up to date and you get popped for having no insurance? Since you don't have POI in the vehicle, because it's not required by law, then at MINIMUM it's going to cost you $25 based in the strictest sense of the law's wording. Why would it be YOUR fault DMV screwed up? That's putting an extra burden on the driver to check to see if DMV's files show proper information. That's really scary......
I not sure if SC is going to do something like this. Currently you have to have POI at the time of initial registration with POI carried in the vehicle. They do this with the understanding that you will maintain unbroken insurance coverage for the duration of the registration that you signed on for on the initial registration application. Otherwise, your registration is automatically suspended if insurance lapses. SC statutes are a little easier if you happen to not have the POI with you at the time of the citation. See below:
quote:(A) A person whose application for registration and licensing of a motor vehicle has been approved by the department must maintain in the motor vehicle at all times proof that the motor vehicle is an insured vehicle in conformity with the laws of this State and Section 56-10-510.
(B) The owner of a motor vehicle must maintain proof of financial responsibility in the motor vehicle at all times, and it must be displayed upon demand of a police officer or any other person duly authorized by law. (C) A person who fails to maintain the proof of insurance in his motor vehicle as required by subsection (A) is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, is subject to the same punishment as provided by law for failure of the person driving or in control of a motor vehicle to carry the vehicle registration card and to display the registration card upon demand. However, a charge of failing to maintain proof that a motor vehicle is insured must be dismissed if the person provides proof to the court that the motor vehicle was insured on the date of the violation. Upon notice of conviction, the department shall suspend the owner's driver's license until satisfactory proof of insurance is provided. If at any time the department determines that the vehicle was without insurance coverage, the owner's registration and driving privileges will be suspended pursuant to Section 56-10-520.
I ALWAYS carry the little insurance card (current) with me just in case, even if it wasn't required. Sorry this got a little dragged out, but as the police say, ignorance of the law is no excuse, and as drivers, we must make sure we're on top of things to help prevent us getting screwed.
-------------------- Mike '02 #6906 pewter/M6/leather/hardtop Posts: 577 | From: Aiken, SC | Registered: May 2002
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el ess1, I called the tag office less than 10 minutes after I got my citation just to verify my coverage. The lady told me she showed me as fully insured all the way back to 99, when I bought my truck. I also called my insurance company to verify that the state of Ga. has accepted my VIN as valid, which it was.
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Call your local Highway Patrol Office and ask for clarification of the statute especially as it pertains to not havong to carry an insurance ID card with you. Ask them how they interpret the law.......that ought to be interesting.
-------------------- Dave S Black 2000 Camaro SS Posts: 502 | From: Fort Mill, South Carolina....Charlotte | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Here in North Carolina if you are stopped they ask for drivers license and registration card and your insurance info is on your registration card along with the drivers license number of the owner of the car. You have to have insurance on file or they don't renew your tag and if your insurance runs out and you don't renew they come get your tag at your home if you don't turn it in yourself.My insurance no is on the registration card. I don't ever know of anyone getting a ticket for not having it with them and if you don't have your license with you they will just call in and check and then send you on your way.
-------------------- Willard (Mike) Scott Worldwide Camaro Club North Carolina state Rep. 2001 SS convertible with all SLP opts. Sunset Orange Neutral top Neutral leather http://community.webshots.com/user/wmss Posts: 737 | From: Siler City N.C. | Registered: Sep 2003
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FireChicken
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posted
quote:Originally posted by SS_CarGuy: Call your local Highway Patrol Office and ask for clarification of the statute especially as it pertains to not havong to carry an insurance ID card with you. Ask them how they interpret the law.......that ought to be interesting.
It is not the job of police officers to interpret the laws. They just enforce the laws as interpreted by the courts. Its the courts that interpret the laws.
Its all about the money!
Posts: 686 | From: Texas: Hullabaloo, Caneck! Caneck! | Registered: Aug 2003
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You must be living in a fish bowl some where. You talk about the law and the police like there's some connection. Most local police don't know the laws and they don't care. Their job is to make revenue for the city.
No, I'm not living in a fish bowl, I'm living in South Carolina. I said I wasn't a lawyer, but I can still read. I don't know why you'd be trashing at me, but it sounds like you were a wrongly treated victim of the "system" yourself.
And for the record, the police are not supposed to interpret the law, they only enforce it. Yeah, they CAN interpret if they want, but they'd better be right.
And you don't pay court costs if you plead and are found to be not guilty in traffic court. If ~you~ request a trial and/or jury, that's a different story. I know you don't believe me, so you can go look it up. If that were true, every person in the world would get socked with court costs every time some policeman wrote a ticket. If you're dumb enough to pay it nolo contendre, that's your problem.
Sure, I agree that there may be quotas involved. The court needs to pad their retirement incomes. That's why I said it was a scam before, because the percentage who don't fight the fines. Easy money. The cop can contend he determined that he didn't have proof at the time of the citation, but he didn't check via DMV like he was supposed to, as DMV actually shows he did have insurance at the time. The cop didn't do his job correctly, so that will obviously come out in court. On that technicality, the cop loses. If he wins, I'd definitely appeal that twisted judgement.
My bet is that he gets it dismissed AND he doesn't pay court costs. If the evidence is as what is available here, I predict a slam-dunk walkaway. Just a little time out of the day is all it will cost.
But, even so, don't take my word for it or anyone else's here, unless they're a lawyer licensed to practice in Georgia. I'd at least consult an attorney to see what options are available. Good luck!
Posts: 577 | From: Aiken, SC | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by SS_CarGuy: Call your local Highway Patrol Office and ask for clarification of the statute especially as it pertains to not havong to carry an insurance ID card with you. Ask them how they interpret the law.......that ought to be interesting.
I did call a friend of mine who is a GA State Trooper and he told me to take him to court. He said that after the new 40-6-10 law, it is just common sense to run the tag and get it clarified right there. That way it saves the cops embarassment in court.
Sorry, was not my intent. I have deleted the offending post. Please return to your normal discussion.
Fuggedahbaudit. I can understand your point of view. It's also hard to read words on a computer screen and know exactly what the other person intends. I get frustrated, too, at some of the "police intervention" stories I hear about. Some are legit citations and arrests, but others are probably hassle and shakedown jobs that the police attempt. Just keep your eyes open on the streets.
-------------------- Mike '02 #6906 pewter/M6/leather/hardtop Posts: 577 | From: Aiken, SC | Registered: May 2002
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