posted
In my Business and Society Class I am writing a Social Audit paper on General Motors Corporation. (Yes, I was luckily enough to pick the company) Just looking for all your responses, whether it be owners of cars, shareholders, and employees. What does General Motors mean to you? How is it important to you? IT's impacts on society? etc. I'm devoting a page or so of the paper to actual reponses from employees and owners, and the tight knit community we have here as camaro/firebird owners. I wont use anyones name unless i have your permission. I just thought it would add a nice touch to the paper and have more of an impact coming from first-hand sources.
I kind of posted this late as it's due next friday, but I, like most college students, put off work until the last minute, hehe. I haven't written this section yet anyways.So anything I get by this coming wednesday I will try and use. This might also be a good discussion in general to share all our views as well, whether negative or positive. I'll also post my final product if you'd like. (I'm not the best at writing papers, hehe..heck I'm a finance major!)
Thanks all for your contributions!
-------------------- 2004 Cavalier LS Sport Coupe Manual,Sunroof,16" Chrome, Zaino!!! http://community.webshots.com/user/pazbich3 Used to Drive: 2001 Camaro SS #3220 Posts: 2651 | From: Enola (Harrisburg Area), Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
FireChicken
11 Secret Herbs & Spices
Member # 2067
posted
Well, to me, General Motors is a company that provides a wide range of products to meet a wide range of buyers. They have multiple divisions and cars that span across multiple ranges of spending, styling, and driver attitude. If you are looking for a vehicle, and you have a set of criteria, you can find something very close from GM. Personally, I also think that while they do have some bad ideas (aztec), and some of their quality is not always perfect, for the most part, they do ok. I like the way their engines are designed, stuff is placed in a position that makes it easy to do your own maintanence and repair within a reasonable degree, and many of their components are modulur, lowering parts costs. They are obviously making a resurgence into rwd and better quality vehicles, which as a concerned, research-prone consumer, makes me very interested in buying their products in the future. I think they will make the things Im intereted in buying, and thats really what I like!
Posts: 686 | From: Texas: Hullabaloo, Caneck! Caneck! | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
General Motors, to me, epitomizes the essence of the muscle-car! My first car was a 1972 Camaro SS 396 bored out to a 402. Growing up in the muscle-car era, I eagerly looked forward each year to the faster, sleeker, more powerful offerings from GM, and even though I had to sell my car in 1979, I continued to drool over the subsequent "generations" of the Camaro as well as the Firebird/TransAm. One of the highlights of my infatuation with the muscle-car has been seeing GM's lineup at the State Fair of Texas every year.
I always knew that someday I would own another Camaro SS, and even though I knew perfectly well that the f-body platform was being discontinued, nothing would do but that I purchase one. I am so proud of my 2002 Camaro SS and I plan to keep it forever. General Motors, therefore, has been integral part of my life, providing me with the one and only car that I have ever and will ever love.
-Millicent Odell
How's that, Dan??
--------------------
EMCC Member #338 SSOA Member #M02-9119 Michigan Mafia Member #666 Posts: 3236 | From: Dallas, Texas | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Thanks you two! A definite good start. I've made quite some progress in my papaer, and will definitely incorporate your views within. Posts: 2651 | From: Enola (Harrisburg Area), Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
At my house we have 7 GM vehicles.One being a Cadillac and the other six are Chevrolets and I work for Ford Motor Company.What does that tell you? My dad worked for Chevrolet for 40 years so I grew up around GM products.Being a former Master Auto Technician,I can say the GM cars seem to hold up a lot better and have electronic technology that other manufactures may get a few years down the road.
-------------------- Current ride is: 2002 Brickyard 400 35th Anniversary LE convertible #22,SLP build# 0036,35th Anniversary Build #47 EMCC Member #234 www.emcamaro.org WCA Member #197582 MMCC Member #28 NEOCC Member #634 Posts: 5682 | From: Dearborn,Mi. | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
-------------------- 1968 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe RS/SS 350 - Quasar Blue, LOADED and just happens to be my pride and joy. 2002 BMW 540i 6-speed - Jet Black, nicely optioned (Daily Driver) 2000 BMW 323i 5-speed - Titanium Silver, nicely optioned (Wifes car)
posted
Haha, ok...I guess I'm trying to keep the paper as positive as I can. Even though alot of us have had problems with chevy/GM...eg. warranty issues...ah well.
Thanks Greg as well.
-------------------- 2004 Cavalier LS Sport Coupe Manual,Sunroof,16" Chrome, Zaino!!! http://community.webshots.com/user/pazbich3 Used to Drive: 2001 Camaro SS #3220 Posts: 2651 | From: Enola (Harrisburg Area), Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by DanPazich: Haha, ok...I guess I'm trying to keep the paper as positive as I can. Even though alot of us have had problems with chevy/GM...eg. warranty issues...ah well.
Thanks Greg as well.
Your Welcome! Posts: 5682 | From: Dearborn,Mi. | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
My dad spent 30 years as a District Manager with Chevrolet Motor Division. I was raised in a GM family. That's more than just "we bought GM cars." There was kind of a culture that surrounded that.
Dad ordered and drove a new Chevrolet company car basically every month. He usually preferred big Chevrolets, i.e., Caprices and Impalas, but he had a few of everything. I was brought home from the hospital in a new '73 Caprice. My sister, who is three years younger, made the trip in a new '76. Over the years I've had the opportunity to ride in cars that weren't even in production yet, Chevrolets that were more loaded and expensive than most people were willing to actually buy, and cars with very unusual options and colors. Sometimes they were special promotional vehicles. Dad also had a lot of Corvettes. A new Corvette leaves a pretty big impression on a 12-year-old and his buddies.
I craved any information I could get my hands on. I wore out every brochure and dealer order guide I could get my hands on. A dealer order guide was supposed to be the bible of what products they had, and I read the bible religiously.
GM is more a part of my family than some of my relatives. That's why sometimes when people try to bash it I get defensive. My dad retired years ago, but I am still as fired up as I was when I was a kid. I still wear my bowtie stuff every weekend. I still read all the literature. I still get to talk with some of the people that my dad worked with. I know the people, I know the company, and I appreciate it's role in my life up to this point. As far as I'm concerned, there is no other car company. Posts: 142 | From: Kansas City | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
As an 'old guy', I've owned quite a few cars over the last 40 years - many of them were Fords. I've had a '66 Mustang, '88 Mustang GT, '58 Lincoln Continental Mark III, several full sized Ford vans, a Mercury Topaz, and a Taurus station wagon. That all came to an end when I saw my first '95 Impala SS. As soon as I could, I purchased a '96 Impala SS and, based on that positive experience, have only owned Chevrolet products ever since. We now have an '00 full sized Regency conversion van, an '03 Express 1500 service van, and an '02 35th Anniversary Camaro SS convertible.
As far as I am concerned, I don't need to look at any other car company for my future needs. GM seems to be building vehicles that I like and they are very likely to get all my future business. There are really only two things that could change that: 1) major quality problems; or 2) the company selling out to a foreign owner like Chrysler did.
At this point, there are only two real US auto manufacturers and for the last 8 years, Chevrolet Division of GM has gotten all of my business. I really do believe in buying American products when at all possible.
-------------------- SSteve Wiltsie SSOA Member M02-3311 2002 35th Anniversary SS LE Conv. Stock except for: K&N filter; tinted windows; Mark's caliper decals 2003 100th Anniversary H-D V-Rod Life... This is NOT a drill Posts: 192 | From: Evansville, IN | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Here are some of my observations over the last 40 plus years.
Back in the 50's GM "owned" the auto business world wide for the most part. They had well over 50 percent of the car market in the US. And they were the largest company in the USA and worldwide. So you can imagine the economic impact they had when times were good or bad on other businesses and peoples personal lives. GM's market share has slowly eroded over the years and represents a much smaller percentage of total car sales in the US today. And Wal Mart is the largest company in the country today. That demise over the years resulted in countless changes to our economy and peoples lives. GM's current manufacturing workforce in the US is only a fraction of what it once was......but that is also a very complicated subject because of the way cars are built today with outside manufacturers supplying a lot of components that were previously done in house by GM. And trying to figure out what all this change has meant to our economy and peoples lives is probably impossible to do.
On a personal note, I was a GM guy thru and thru......at least as far as the cars I purchased for many many years. However when the 80's rolled around I stopped being a GM guy and from that point forward I bought the product that I felt was right for me. If GM made it, fine.....but if Ford made it that is what I bought. I have had the opporunity to own many different makes and models of cars over the years. GM's cars in their current model configurations have very little appeal to me right now. Their products are at best average (IMHO) when compared to what other car companies offer........and yes there are some exceptions to that with certain cars in their lineup. Their dealer network for sales and service do not appear to be on par with certain other manufacturers but I don't feel they are any worse or any better than certain others either......therefore they are at best average in my opinion. BTW, I am also a GM shareholder.
I certainly wish GM could recapture some of the magic they had in the 50's 60's and part of the 70's when they made some of the best cars in the country accross all their lineup....but I am not holding my breath because the competition is so fierce today I don't even know if that's possible anymore to the extent it was back then.
-------------------- Dave S Black 2000 Camaro SS Posts: 502 | From: Fort Mill, South Carolina....Charlotte | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
Awesome! I really appreciate your input and responses. Will definitely incorporate the ideals, viewpoints and opinions into my paper.
-------------------- 2004 Cavalier LS Sport Coupe Manual,Sunroof,16" Chrome, Zaino!!! http://community.webshots.com/user/pazbich3 Used to Drive: 2001 Camaro SS #3220 Posts: 2651 | From: Enola (Harrisburg Area), Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
Fbodfather
They don't make songs about Volvos.
Member # 1119
posted
OK..go get a cup of coffee....this is gonna be a Longgggggg one...but hey..you asked:
What does GM mean to me?
I guess because I was fortunate to grow up in my family’s Chevrolet Dealership, the “GM Mark of Excellence” has always been a talisman of sorts to me. Next to the American Flag, (should I say “below” the American Flag…which I believe is supreme) the GM Signature and the Chevy Bow Tie to me are important symbols of the American Dream. I’ve had offers from three different motor vehicle manufacturers, (one domestic and two foreign brands)…..for substantially more money. But I truly believe that GM in the long term is the company that I want to work for. Because it’s best overall. (money is not always the best motivator)
No corporation, or business, or person for that matter is perfect. The corporate psyche, if you will, is formed by the thoughts, policies, leadership and the vision of that leadership. GM has had some very low moments…..most recently, in my opinion, when the corp. was lead by outsiders such as R. Zarella. While GM is involved in many other businesses, the main thrust is the design, engineering, and manufacturing of vehicles…be they cars, trucks, or even diesel locomotives. (ElectroMotive) It seems to me, just a plain ‘ole guy from Western Pennsylvania, that GM Leadership, perhaps, lost its way in the 80s into the 90s. When you consider the pressures placed upon GM and all other domestic manufacturers from the 70s on, it’s understandable how this could happen. (and that in itself, would take volumes to explain…..)
I truly believe, however, that GM is in the midst of a great comeback.
GM has also had many, many peaks. When you realize the contribution GM has made over the years in terms of safety development, bio-medical research, and engineering advancements, (just to name three) you realize that we all stand a much better chance of surviving a traffic accident. The GM Foundation has given billions of dollars to charitable causes. Our business has provided for millions of jobs in terms of suppliers and vendors. When our military personnel started to come back from Iran, who was on those aircraft carriers to welcome them back...and give away new Chevy Trucks??? GM. The list could go on and on, but hey, again, I’m just a regular guy from Western Pennsylvania….and I’m at home right now, so it’s kinda hard to check with our communications people…….
An article was written back in 1914 by Theodore F. MacManus for Cadillac Motor Car Company….which of course, was a part of the early General Motors Corp. It starts out
“In every field of human endeavor, he that is first must perpetually live in the white light of publicity. Whether the leadership be vested in a man or in a manufactured product, emulation and envy are ever at work.”
(I’ll attach a copy of this work…it’s great reading..and I believe it’s just as important and true today as it was when Mr. MacManus wrote it in the fall/winter of 1914.) It appeared in the January 2nd edition of the Saturday Evening Post in 1915. I have a copy hanging in my office….and it’s been there in various forms in my many offices since 1977.
My point is this: GM is a leader in the industry. By being a leader, it is held up to much higher scrutiny than most. Therefore, the “penalty”, again, in my opinion, is that people will search out all that is wrong rather than look for the good. It seems this is human nature for the most part.
I’m proud of the fact that GM, for many years, had the world’s largest biomedical research laboratories. From those labs, research was conducted….and published….and still today, is used by nearly all manufacturers of motor vehicles in order to provide safer vehicles. The “Jersey Barrier?” Developed by GM at the Milford Proving Grounds. Break-away traffic signs and light poles? GM. The Hybrid III crash test dummy? Energy Absorbing Steering Column? Side door guard beams??? GM. The list is staggering. Moreover, when you consider that the average GM car built today has more computing power than the Apollo trip to the Moon, that’s some statement. But mention that to the average American and they’re stunned.
Think about OnStar: We’ve offered it for over 10 years…has any other manufacturer offered anything like it?
A system that can automatically notify emergency personnel when your airbag deploys,perhaps saving lives?
A system that can track your ‘carjacked’ car or truck – that MAY have a loved one still in the vehicle…(yep…has happened many times)...to allow police to attempt to apprehend the criminal and return your vehicle, it’s contents, and yes, perhaps a loved one to you?
A system that can automatically unlock your car or truck when you’ve inadvertently left the keys inside the locked vehicle?
Or give you directions when you are lost?
Why do you suppose some other company didn’t offer this system first?
And why aren’t there more out there like it???
“Engine Charley” Wilson, who was one of GM’s leaders through the 30s, 40s, and 50s once made a statement before congressional hearings. His statement has been misquoted for years. He said to the effect “I’ve always been of the opinion that what is good for the United States is Good for GM.” Unfortunately, the misquote inevitably ends up being misquoted as “What’s good for GM is good for the country.” I think this illustrates the premise that Mr. MacManus tried to prove in “The Penalty of Leadership.” When America does well, so does GM. The Wall Street Journal published an article not too long ago that talked about how GM saved the American Economy. You might recall that in the days after 9/11, GM was the first Automobile Manufacturer to come out with low financing across the board on EVERY GM car and truck. Yes….our Chairman talked with the President of the United States…and agreed that it was time to take a leadership role in ensuring that the economy did not crash. That’s true leadership.
Dan…I know this is a rambling bunch of thoughts…but I guess the hour is late…and this is a very passionate subject for me.
It pains me to see the shots taken at GM by people with good intentions….but virtually no knowledge of reality. Yes, there are days that I get fed up with GM….and the problems that we all face each day with interaction amongst individuals and groups. I remember complaining to my father one time about all the trouble with my job….and perhaps I should look at another company. He simply said “so, in other words, this other company has no problems and you’ll never have any problems there???” My Dad was right. He also was very proud to be a Chevy dealer and be associated with GM. In the final analysis, I realize that GM IS a great company. It is not always right…and no company or person can ever be right 100% of the time. I can tell you this: There are many many men and women working hard 24/7/365 to make sure that the products and services we offer earn the right to wear the GM Mark of Excellence. As to quality? Go look at the J.D. Power surveys...esp. the ones for "bought 4 years ago, still own" -- and tell me we don't measure up. With that said, we still have a long way to go. And to those who think that some "mystical" imports are problem-free...go look behind the showroom....see those doors? It's called a service department. When you put 22,000 parts together, there's gonna be trouble.
We're not going to be satisfied until we're on top of all surveys...all the time.
I AM very concerned, not only for GM, but for the United States when I see the apathy toward American Business. Much of this apathy is deserved – Enron, WorldCom, K-Mart……but one only has to look at Boeing to see where we may be going. It’s time for ALL Americans to wake up…and pay attention to what each of us can – and must – contribute to preserving our standard of living.
In closing, let me make something perfectly clear…these are my personal thoughts and opinions and have no reflection on General Motors Policy, nor has GM approved what I’ve written here.
-------------------- Posts: 749 | From: Detroit | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
Fbodfather
They don't make songs about Volvos.
Member # 1119
posted
THE PENALTY OF LEADERSHIP - by Theodore F. MacManus
In every field of human endeavor, he that is first must perpetually live in the white light of publicity. Whether the leadership be vested in a man or in a manufactured product, emulation and envy are ever at work. In art, in literature, in music, in industry, the reward and the punishment are always the same. The reward is widespread recognition; the punishment, fierce denial and detraction. When a man's work becomes a standard for the whole world, it also becomes a target for the shafts of the envious few. If his work be merely mediocre, he will be left severely alone - if he achieve a masterpiece it will set a million tongues a-wagging. Jealousy does not protrude its forked tongue at the artist who produces a commonplace painting. Whatsoever you write, or paint, or play, or sing, or build, no one will strive to surpass, or to slander you, unless your work be stamped with the seal of genius.
Long, long after a great work or a good work has been done, those who are disappointed or envious continue to cry out that it can not be done. Spiteful little voices in the domain of art were raised against our own Whistler as a mountebank, long after the big world had acclaimed him its greatest artistic genious. Multitudes flocked to Bayreuth to worship at the musical shrine of Wagner, while the little group of those whom he had dethroned and displaced argued angrily that he was no musician at all. The little world continued to protest that Fulton could never build a steamboat, while the big world flocked to the river banks to see his boat steam by.
The leader is assailed because he is a leader, and the effort to equal him is merely added proof of that leadership. Failing to equal or to excel, the follower seeks to depreciate and to destroy - but only confirms once more the superiority of that which he strives to supplant. There is nothing new in this. It is as old as the world and as old as the human passions - envy, fear, greed, ambition, and the desire to surpass. And it all avails nothing. If the leader truly leads, he remains - the leader. Master-poet, master-painter, master-workman, each in his turn is assailed, and each holds his laurels through the ages. That which is good or great makes itself known, no matter how loud the clamor of denial. That which deserves to live - lives.
-------------------- Posts: 749 | From: Detroit | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
That was truly inspirational f'bodfather. And being a western pennsylvanian myself I know where you are coming from. I wish GM would hire me because I too remember when GM was king of the road in the 50's thru the '70's. Also how true it is in the article by Theodore F. MacManus. Thanks for taking the time to share.
-------------------- 2002 SS #0135 Onyx,Leather,M6,TT,Grill,10 Spoke Chrome,CME,Mats,Cover,Fobs and Plaque,Birth Certificate,!CAGS,Short Throw Shifter,OEM SLP Lid, Engine Plaque. SSOA Member #M02-0135 Member WCA Posts: 71 | From: Florida West Coast | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
Thanks a million Scott!! A definitely great insight on the Camaraderie and family that GM builds/creates, whether be owners, employees, etc. Truly great information to use, not only in my paper, but for all of us! Cant thanks you enough Scott. And if it's alright, I might note your name in there.
Thanks again!!
-------------------- 2004 Cavalier LS Sport Coupe Manual,Sunroof,16" Chrome, Zaino!!! http://community.webshots.com/user/pazbich3 Used to Drive: 2001 Camaro SS #3220 Posts: 2651 | From: Enola (Harrisburg Area), Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
I got most of it done. IT's all organized and such...will look over it again and make some changes, but at least it's done! WHEW!!! I'm no writer by any means, but i guess that is my 'viewpoint' on General Motors (with your views as well intertwined. It's a Social Audit paper, so i was trying to be objective as i can.
-------------------- 2004 Cavalier LS Sport Coupe Manual,Sunroof,16" Chrome, Zaino!!! http://community.webshots.com/user/pazbich3 Used to Drive: 2001 Camaro SS #3220 Posts: 2651 | From: Enola (Harrisburg Area), Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
-------------------- 2004 Cavalier LS Sport Coupe Manual,Sunroof,16" Chrome, Zaino!!! http://community.webshots.com/user/pazbich3 Used to Drive: 2001 Camaro SS #3220 Posts: 2651 | From: Enola (Harrisburg Area), Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
Fbodfather
They don't make songs about Volvos.
Member # 1119
posted
Dan.....thank you for a great paper on General Motors. I'm grateful you posted the link on this site and hope people will have a better understanding of General Motors....and it was my pleasure to give you a little insight.
Quick early history of GM:
Ranson E. Olds did not really found GM. A man by the name of William Durant actually founded General Motors Corp. After incorporating GM he attempted to merge Buick, Maxwell-Briscoe, REO (Ransom Old's company) and, of all things, FORD! Because both Olds and Henry Ford agreed to sell only on the terms of cold hard cash, he was unable to put all of those brands together in his first attempt.
He incorporated General Motors Corporation in 1908 and by 1910, his "GM" consisted of Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac, Oakland (precursor to Pontiac) along with smaller firms such as Carter, Elcar, Marquette, etc. He also managed to acquire small parts makers, such as Champion Ignition company (spark plugs) Weston-Mott Axle company, and others. Once again, he agreed to buy out Henry Ford...but the price had risen substantially...and once again, Henry wanted cash, not stock. A major problem was that Mr. Durant purchased many of these companies by issuing stock.....and as a result, GM was cash starved. The Ford Buyout, obviously, never happened.
Mr. Durant "owned" or "engineered" GM three different times in his life..eventually losing it for good. He died a poor man in, as I recall, the early 30s.
The auto industry, in its early years was somewhat incestuous........for instance, the Dodge Brothers, at one time, were major stockholders in Ford Motor Company -- yet they had been making transmissions for Olds. They were eventually bought out by Walter P. Chrysler when he formed the Chrysler Corporation. GM was headed by Charles Nash for sometime as well as Walter P. Chrysler. Roy Chapin at one point was the sales manager for Olds, yet he left and helped to found Hudson Motor Car Company.
Two trivia tidbits: In 1911, a Chevrolet Motor Car was substantially more expensive than a Cadillac. Louis B. Chevrolet was a race car driver and felt that his car should be a premium performance car. Durant disagreed and bought Mr. Chevrolet out....repositioning Chevrolet as a low-priced automobile. It would later go head-to-head with the Ford.....and the sales race continues today.
David Buick made his money in the plumbing business--supposedly by developing the method of applying enamel to bathtubs! He sold his pumbing concern to work on a 'valve in head' engine idea. William Durant bought the company in 1904 and in 1908, Buick was the leader in the industry with 8,500 cars sold that year.
Just thought some of you might want to know ......
quote:Originally posted by DanPazich: I got most of it done. IT's all organized and such...will look over it again and make some changes, but at least it's done! WHEW!!! I'm no writer by any means, but i guess that is my 'viewpoint' on General Motors (with your views as well intertwined. It's a Social Audit paper, so i was trying to be objective as i can./Files/dmp289/Documents/SocialAudit.doc
Nice work!
Tell the prof if he(she?) doesn't give you an A+, the Fbodfather and Joey Red will be making a visit soon. Posts: 2359 | From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Scott and Dan, I hope the GM marketing folks have seen this excellent work. I am sure it reflects many of our feelings extremely well.
I will only say that I own 4 GM Vehicles. That is how I state my feelings.
There are things to resolve.
How about a program that gives provenloyal customer a little extra attention, like less argument over warranty issues?
Tier your customers and hold on to the best ones. They will help create more loyal ones.
Go GM! And thanks for giving us the FBodfather, he is a real reason why customer like me own multiple GM cars even though only one is related to Scott. The rest is the personal attention from people like Scott that demystify's the huge company effect. It is personal!
Posts: 5946 | From: Litchfield, NH, USA | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
GM to me has beem a company that has gone through a lot of changes. I saw a lot doing service work in plants for over 10 years in the Detroit area.
I tried to get into the Skilled trades long ago and glad I didnt I am happier in the direction that I have gone Electricion at the University of Michigan.My wife though has gotten into GM and has gone through the ranks of contractor to Managment and to say the people we have met will always be life long friends be it GM/EDS/Argonaut Realty .....
My 1st car was a Vega GT and I could not keep a Clutch in it "BUT" that 2nd clutch could pull the front going into 2nd from time to time.I have had a lot of company cars that I tried and always came back to GM. The wife gets one every 60 days to Evaluate so its always a different experience (Dan I am hoping for another "Caddy" ).
Dad Always had a Chevy and the father in law with 40 years at Ford 90% of the time bought GM.
Without GM we would not have the "SS" and "Chirpthird" where we have the greatest group of people sharing ideas and fun .
-------------------- SLP#3579 LE#1533 A pair of 35th Anny drinking chairs. Every thing else is just "Fluff" Rio Grande "Swim" Coach Posts: 3091 | From: Canton Mi. | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
I AM very concerned, not only for GM, but for the United States when I see the apathy toward American Business.
I lied about keeping my mouth shut....
Scott, your statement was very passionate and well written.
I only have a few things to say. As a consumer, if I have a choice of supporting between an American company and a foreign countries product, It is going to come down to the quality of the product and how I have been treated by that company. G.M. has fallen FAR SHORT when it comes to these two things for me and I don't believe I am alone. Why should the American consumer suffer for poor quality and terrible service to be "patriotic"? I wonder why no TV's are made here in America anymore...Don't blame the consumer, blame the manufacturer. As a consumer, I demand a quality product or I'll look elsewhere. Any smart consumer will do the same.
Hell, aren't most of the components for G.M.s cars made in foreign countries...what about those lost "American" jobs?
I have been a loyal G.M. customer since I was 18, along with my family decades before that. I have owned a Honda in the past and now a BMW, the quality and reliability of these vehicles are heads and tails above any G.M. product I have owned. The Honda (which I purchased in tough personal times) was 6 years old when I sold it, its still ran like a swiss watch. The BMW is going on 4 years old now and is as solid as the day we drove it off the lot. So when I hear G.M. is "up there" in quality and customer satisfaction, I just laugh. J.D. Powers awards aren't worth the paper they're written on when it comes to my experiences. My brothers, sister and parents have also moved on from G.M. due to quality and service problems, some to Ford, some to Chrysler and some to Toyota.
To put the nail in the coffin, Honda and BMW service (and not just the dealer, but the PARENT company) has been unmatched. Owning a BMW has opened my "blinded by loyalty" eyes. Sure, all cars will have problems...for me its how the PARENT company treats the problem and the consumer. Until I see a major change, and i'm not holding my breath, my loyalties will lie elsewhere.
I will always love my Chevys and Camaros, every one of them, I will always be a Chevy guy at heart for what WAS. G.M. in the past has created some of the most beautiful and wonderful vehicles. I truly believe G.M.s heyday was in the 50's, 60's and early 70's. It is truly sad to me to see the direction they have taken.
I guess that ended up being more than a "few" things to say.
-------------------- 1968 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe RS/SS 350 - Quasar Blue, LOADED and just happens to be my pride and joy. 2002 BMW 540i 6-speed - Jet Black, nicely optioned (Daily Driver) 2000 BMW 323i 5-speed - Titanium Silver, nicely optioned (Wifes car)
posted
When did Dan's paper turn into a bitch to Scott session?
You opinion is yours and valid, the thread was from Dan looking for input, your response should be to that, not a response to Scott,
That isn't fair, Scott is not at liberty to get into that discussion with you. Direct your response to the thread and not Scott's response to the thread.
Now I'm doing it too. My apologies to you Dan P. These don't belong here.
Posts: 5946 | From: Litchfield, NH, USA | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
Nope...my statement is on topic. Its very much what G.M. meant and means to me. Sure, a lot of it was pointed at what Scott was saying, but its still VERY much on topic.
My experiences and opinions of G.M. are not popular here or on any G.M. related board and i've taken a lot of flak for it. Some people don't like to hear the negative truth from some peoples point of view or experience.
Posts: 700 | From: Fighting the Nazis of the world..... | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Thanks to all for your input and kind respsonses, I appreciate it. I dont mind the 'negative' comments, as not all 100% feel the same way, and I understand that. AS stated in my paper i belevie, NO COMPANY is perfect by any means. Sure you can get close, and some do. A company can only do so much, then, it's up to the individual consumers to make their choice. And I think more GM owners will give a little more slack or less quality, more so than any other company...though each of our tolerances and experiences are quite varied. There are many poles and surveys out there that do point that GM still holds the top spot for repeat customers (as Scott stated), so it must mean something. For me, I've had quite a few problems with my SS, but on the other side of that, Forbes Chevrolet was there with excellent customer service to help solve the issues i had.
One personal experience I had was this past summer at the Carlisle show, a guy comes up to my car, looks around, and introduces himself. Here, he was a tech at the dealer that has worked on my car, and complemented me and we talked for a little.
I hope my paper, or even other similar papers floating out there enter the hands of even just a small fraction of people, to shed maybe a tiny bit of light on GM. We'll see......
-------------------- 2004 Cavalier LS Sport Coupe Manual,Sunroof,16" Chrome, Zaino!!! http://community.webshots.com/user/pazbich3 Used to Drive: 2001 Camaro SS #3220 Posts: 2651 | From: Enola (Harrisburg Area), Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
Fbodfather
They don't make songs about Volvos.
Member # 1119
posted
MMM ERT...
You are correct in that this is a free country and you are entitled to your opinion. I'm truly sorry that you've had bad experiences with GM. I don't know all the specifics...I've heard some of them, but I also understand there are two sides to every story. But I will tell you that the other makers you almost (notice I said almost) Cannonize are far from perfect. Go to any BBB or small claims court and you'll see what I'm talking about. Furthermore, the percentage of dealerships owned by "groups" continues to grow...so it is most likely that a Honda dealership is owned by the same person or persons that own the Chevy Dealership. You happened to have bad experiences at Chevy Dealerships..and you happened to have great experiences at a BMW dealership.
Have we had quality problems? Yup. Will we continue to...unfortunately. So does Honda, Toyota, etc. And they will continue to have quality issues. When you put 22,000 parts together, (that, by the way, to a large extent, are built by outside suppliers) there are going to be problems.
I have a friend in New York...bought a new Bentley...paint was bad...Bentley turned him down for a paint job...car was only a few months old..and he had to go to lemon law. He was not happy with the way he was treated either by Bentley or the dealership. Am I going to go on a tirade about it? No. Does this mean all Bentleys suck? No.
As to quality...you have probably seen my post several times where Chevrolet Passenger cars have surpassed Toyota for the past two years. That must mean we're doing something right. Do we have a ways to go? You betcha..but everyone does!
Furthermore, in the J.D. Power Surveys "bought new..still own at 4 years", GM is number one.
You are correct in that this is a free country. And you have the right to buy whatever you feel you should.
Now....I've tried to be nice up to this point.....but let me say this..when and if our economy goes to hell in a handbasket...perhaps you are a part of the problem.
As to TVs not being made in this country, it had nothing to do with quality..it had to do with labor costs.
(QUOTE: "My experiences and opinions of G.M. are not popular here or on any G.M. related board and i've taken a lot of flak for it. Some people don't like to hear the negative truth from some peoples point of view or experience." (Unquote)
Look...we (the board collectively) know you're mad as hell at GM....I don't think most people mind hearing negative things....but I think we're tired about hearing it over and over and over again.
I don't know what you do for a living...(because your profile basically says nothing...) so it's hard, perhaps to come up with an analogy that perhaps you can understand.
Meanwhile, I was asked by Dan to give my opinions of what GM means to me. No where in the article did I say GM ...or its people...were perfect. In fact, I think I said we weren't.
quote:Originally posted by DanA_F99_1977: Your lost popularity has nothing to do with your opinions about GM.
Now that is truly funny... I'd rather be hated for what I am than loved for what I'm not... I am no conformist.
quote:Originally posted by Fbodfather: MMM ERT...you are correct in that this is a free country and you are entitled to your opinion. I'm truly sorry that you've had bad experiences with GM. But I will tell you that the other makers you almost (notice I said almost) Cannonize are far from perfect. Go to any BBB or small claims court and you'll see what I'm talking about. Furthermore, the percentage of dealerships owned by "groups" continues to grow...so it is most likely that a Honda dealership is owned by the same person or persons that own the Chevy Dealership.
Have we had quality problems? Yup. Will we continue to...unfortunately. So does Honda, Toyota, etc.
I have a friend in New York...bought a new Bentley...paint was bad...Bentley turned him down and he had to go to lemon law. He was not happy with the way he was treated either by Bentley or the dealership. Am I going to go on a tirade about it? No. Does this mean all Bentleys suck? No.
As to quality...you have probably seen my post several times where Chevrolet Passenger cars have surpassed Toyota for the past two years. That must mean we're doing something right. Furthermore, in the J.D. Power Surveys "bought new..still own at 4 years, GM is number one."
You are correct in that this is a free country. And you have the right to buy whatever you feel you should.
Now....I've been nice.....but let me say this..when and if our economy goes to hell in a handbasket...perhaps you are a part of the problem.
As to TVs not being made in this country, it had nothing to do with quality..it had to do with labor costs.
Look...we (the board collectively) know you're mad as hell at GM....I guess I for one am tired of hearing the same thing over and over and over again.
Scott, my responses were not an attack on you, just my and my families side of the story based on real world experiences over a very LONG period of time.
I never said that any car company was perfect, I did agree they all have their problems...I don't know if you thorougly read what I said in my post above. JD Power does not reflect my or my families experience in ANY way.
I really don't think people buying foreign products will be this countries downfall, this country has much deeper problems than that. What exactly IS made in America anymore anyway? I buy American products as much as possible.
You are right, Im am mad as hell at G.M. I feel I've earned the right to bitch considering I've purchased quite a few of their products and have beem kicked in the teeth for being loyal.
You say your tired of hearing the same thing over and over....think about it from a customers point of view. Im tired of it too...
I'll be expecting the usual..."why don't you just sell your car" responses now. Its not that simple...I love Camaros as much as the next guy.
Again, no offense meant to you. I respect your opinions, your position in G.M. and all that you do. I've said it before and I'll say it again, G.M. would be a far better company with more people like you working there.
Peace.
[ 14. December 2003, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: MMMM_ERT ]
Posts: 700 | From: Fighting the Nazis of the world..... | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
...Dan P. Sorry for any problems I caused in your thread. Was not my intention.
Posts: 700 | From: Fighting the Nazis of the world..... | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Let's close this one down before someone wakes up with a horse's head in their bed.
Posts: 82 | From: The closet at the end of the hall | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
Topic Closed
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I'll also post my final product if you'd like. (I'm not the best at writing papers, hehe..heck I'm a finance major!)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
).![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
