posted
I'm having trouble with the rear end in the SS. It appears that the front seal is leaking gear lube. Worse yet, I think that the pinion bearing has gone bad judging by the amount of noise coming from the rear. It sound like a 4x4 with some serious mud grips!
Has anyone had trouble like this? How much should I expect to pay to have the rear end serviced with new seals and bearings? Since I'm spending the $$$, should I go ahead and upgrade?
Your opinions are welcome...
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The former owner of: 2000 Onyx Black SS #2,778 A4, T-Tops, ASR, 12 Disc CD Changer, grey cloth, no SLP options Mods: Loudmouth exhaust, SLP Strut Tower Brace, SLP Bolt-on Sub-frame Connectors, SLP air lid w/Powershot filter, SLP smooth bellows, 35th LE wheels, SS floormats, tinted windows, and painted calipers Posts: 322 | From: Fort Polk, LA | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
You got to hit a drive line shop that you trust.
Ask around locally if you don't know anyone. That is one area where the shop is really important.
Can not be diagnosed without seeing it in person.
-------------------- Hawkeye: SSOA F98-C98
1998 SS - Black All Options - Mods Whisper Lid, K & N, Lou's Short Stick, Shift Light, Skip Shift, SLP Y, Borla, 4:10's, BMR STB, SLP SFCs, Granatelli MAF, Hypertech III, 160 Stat, Mallory Billet Pedals, Metco Aluminum LCAs,Fast Toys Ram Air Mod, Spohn Panhard Bar, BMR Torque Arm, free EGR mod,power antenna, BMR LCA brackets, Gentex Temp/Compass Auto Dim Mirror, AllMaxx Strobe and Wig Wag, BAER Eradispeed rotors,PPC Headers with Random Technology Hi Flow Cats, BMR Drive shaft Loop,FAST 78MM Throttle Body, FAST 78MM Composite Intake, Mobil 1 & lots of Zaino.
Wife & Best Friend Mary - copilot. Posts: 5558 | From: Windsor, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
My car makes the same type of noise. Since I don't have much experience driving these cars I assumed it was the high performance tires making the roaring sound. Thought I would just have to live with it. It would be nice to find out I could eliminate it by replacing parts. That noise along with the Loudmouth exhaust is really irritating.
Hopfully we'll get some posts here with a little more information.
quote:Originally posted by BigBlueSS: My car makes the same type of noise. Since I don't have much experience driving these cars I assumed it was the high performance tires making the roaring sound. Thought I would just have to live with it. It would be nice to find out I could eliminate it by replacing parts. That noise along with the Loudmouth exhaust is really irritating.
Hopfully we'll get some posts here with a little more information.
The pinion seal on our cars are notorious for leaking. As Hawkeye mentions, it is diffcult to diagnose without actually hearing it. It could be anything from having to replace the diff. unit to somebody changing the fluid and forgetting to add the lubrizol. In any case, get it looked at ASAP, as the alternative could be ending up stranded.
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Well, I found a good mechanic (by reputation) and he looked at the rear end this morning. He things that the pinion bearing is good and that maybe it's a wheel bearing. Although the axles look good with no pitting, I'm having him change the wheel bearings on both sides and we'll go from there. Frustrating! Posts: 322 | From: Fort Polk, LA | Registered: Feb 2002
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1998 SS - Black All Options - Mods Whisper Lid, K & N, Lou's Short Stick, Shift Light, Skip Shift, SLP Y, Borla, 4:10's, BMR STB, SLP SFCs, Granatelli MAF, Hypertech III, 160 Stat, Mallory Billet Pedals, Metco Aluminum LCAs,Fast Toys Ram Air Mod, Spohn Panhard Bar, BMR Torque Arm, free EGR mod,power antenna, BMR LCA brackets, Gentex Temp/Compass Auto Dim Mirror, AllMaxx Strobe and Wig Wag, BAER Eradispeed rotors,PPC Headers with Random Technology Hi Flow Cats, BMR Drive shaft Loop,FAST 78MM Throttle Body, FAST 78MM Composite Intake, Mobil 1 & lots of Zaino.
Wife & Best Friend Mary - copilot. Posts: 5558 | From: Windsor, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Macky: Well, I found a good mechanic (by reputation) and he looked at the rear end this morning. He things that the pinion bearing is good and that maybe it's a wheel bearing. Although the axles look good with no pitting, I'm having him change the wheel bearings on both sides and we'll go from there. Frustrating!
Are you talking about the wheel/axle bearings at the ends of the axle (by the brakes) or the carrier bearings inside the differential housing?
If it is the outer bearings, these run right on the axles (free floating design). These bearings can be a bear to get out and to re-install square (i.e.: fully seated). If the bearings do not go in properly, the running surface on the axle can be destroyed requiring a new axle shaft.
Care to guess how I know this Posts: 383 | From: Oakville, Ontario Canada | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Macky: Well, I found a good mechanic (by reputation) and he looked at the rear end this morning. He things that the pinion bearing is good and that maybe it's a wheel bearing. Although the axles look good with no pitting, I'm having him change the wheel bearings on both sides and we'll go from there. Frustrating!
Are you talking about the wheel/axle bearings at the ends of the axle (by the brakes) or the carrier bearings inside the differential housing?
If it is the outer bearings, these run right on the axles (free floating design). These bearings can be a bear to get out and to re-install square (i.e.: fully seated). If the bearings do not go in properly, the running surface on the axle can be destroyed requiring a new axle shaft.
Care to guess how I know this
Yes, those are the ones that I was talking about. I had them replaced yesterday but the noise is still there. It now appears that the trouble is inside the differential itself. The little gears inside the diff (the spider gears) are quite worn looking. Bummer.
The good news is I can get a new O.E.M. diff from SLP for $100. But I'm wondering if I should. If my stock unit went out with only 27,000 miles, why should I get another stock unit? They have a heavy duty Zexel-Torsen for $400 and the Auburn unit for $500. With either diff, I can have the pinion bearing replaced and keep the ring an pinion gear which still look new. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I really want to go ahead and get a 12-bolt, but the cheapest I can find is about $1700-$2200. Money is an issue.
What to do? Posts: 322 | From: Fort Polk, LA | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
The spyder gears are worn at 27+K miles?????? Those gears only rotate when the car is going around a corner. In a stright line they do not turn at all. That is really odd.
So if your noise is there while traveling in a straight line, I really doubt that the spyder gears are the problem.
This leaves the pinion bearings, carrier bearings or the setup on the gears.
I take it your mechanic said the gears were in good shape so they can probably be ruled out. My suspicion would lean towards the pinion bearings.
One other possibility is that the pinion nut had started to back off. This will make the gears sound very noisy and if it backs off enough the pinion gear will chew into the differential carrier on decelaration (care to guess how I know this one!!)
If you do want (or need) to change the differential, and money is an issue and you do not use the car for a lot of competition, I would think that a standard SLP Torsen differential would suit your purposes rather well.
This is the differential I have in my '98 Trans Am and it has been beat on with Solo I, II and some lapping. I also like the limited slip action of the Torsen better than an Auburn. Much smoother.
Posts: 383 | From: Oakville, Ontario Canada | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I don't plan on running any auto x's. The car has never been to any track or drag strip. It is purely a daily driver. I can't afford to break it at the track!
I, too, think that it is probably the pinion bearing. But I figured since you need to pull the differential to swap it out and since the spyder gears do look worn, I might as well replace the diff as well. Bottom line is that I would hate to have the pinion bearing replaced and find out that the diff was the problem.
Is that crazy?
As far as buying a 12-bolt rear end, here is what I was thinking...if I go ahead and lay down the cash for a good 12-bolt, then I would never need to worry about the rear again, regardless of the future power upgrades that I install. The only problem with this option is that I would need to save up for a few months for the 12-bolt.
Posts: 322 | From: Fort Polk, LA | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
IMHO, 12 bolts have there own set of problems. Firstly, they will not solve the pinion seal leaking problem. I have heard they are also susceptable to this problem.
Second, they are heavy and will affect the handling and ride quality due to the increased unsprung weight.
Third, the spring seat height will most likely be different (i.e.: higher) resulting in you having to change the springs or cut your current springs.....which I would NEVER suggest anyone do.
Fourth is the cost. They are not cheap.
On the other hand, they are much stronger, and the good ones do away with the c-clips.
However, for a daily driver that is not "abused" it is my belief that the 10-bolt is perfectly adequate. But that is just me.
I do not think it is crazy to replace the differential if you are into it already.....if you can get another one for a reasonable price (been there and done that too). I would suggest the Torsen unit over the Auburn, but again, that is my preference. I would also look into using new carrier bearings too.
If you are going to go this far, I would also suggest that you put in a carrier bearing stud kit (replaces the bolts that hold the carrier bearing saddles in place) and use an aluminum cover with bearing pre-load stud kit. A good one is the TA rear end girdle with stud kit. This is what is on my car.
Posts: 383 | From: Oakville, Ontario Canada | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Macky, Welcome to JRTC, Operations Group, Intell Division and worst of all, Ft. Polk. I'm in TF2 like a mentioned on here a couple months ago. Nice car, I see that we parked next to each other during the last rotation with the 39th ESB. Look me up on the global at work and shoot me an email, I think I'm beginning to have the same problem as I pull into my driveway in Dogwood Terrace. Small clunking noise coming from the rear as I turn left onto Haag St (I'm right there on the corner). I've been wondering the same damn things, which part do I have worked on. I see that you've painted the calipers on your car, hopefully I can get around to this myself one day. Are you planning on any chassis mods? shoot me an email so we can share some info. I'm starting the VTC 1SGs course this week but I should be on OC hours for the most part this month (only three weeks long).
Posts: 29 | From: Fort Polk, LA | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mario Cockrell: Macky, Welcome to JRTC, Operations Group, Intell Division and worst of all, Ft. Polk. I'm in TF2 like a mentioned on here a couple months ago. Nice car, I see that we parked next to each other during the last rotation with the 39th ESB. Look me up on the global at work and shoot me an email, I think I'm beginning to have the same problem as I pull into my driveway in Dogwood Terrace. Small clunking noise coming from the rear as I turn left onto Haag St (I'm right there on the corner). I've been wondering the same damn things, which part do I have worked on. I see that you've painted the calipers on your car, hopefully I can get around to this myself one day. Are you planning on any chassis mods? shoot me an email so we can share some info. I'm starting the VTC 1SGs course this week but I should be on OC hours for the most part this month (only three weeks long).
Just shot you an e-mail.
I think that I'm going to go with the heavy duty Zexel-Torsen diff and keep the 10-bolt. There is no way that I can afford a 12-bolt now anyway. Thanks for all of the replies. I'll let you know how it all works out.
Macky
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The former owner of: 2000 Onyx Black SS #2,778 A4, T-Tops, ASR, 12 Disc CD Changer, grey cloth, no SLP options Mods: Loudmouth exhaust, SLP Strut Tower Brace, SLP Bolt-on Sub-frame Connectors, SLP air lid w/Powershot filter, SLP smooth bellows, 35th LE wheels, SS floormats, tinted windows, and painted calipers Posts: 322 | From: Fort Polk, LA | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mario Cockrell: Ft. Polk.
Hello! Want to team up with Macky for a "road trip" to Waco, TX on Feb. 28?? We're trying to get some potential Bowling Green participants together so we can put a face to a name/car and there's talk about a dyno session, too!
posted
Auburn in mine since new. No problems at all.
When new, it had a creaking sound, when going around corners slowly. I added some GM Posi lube, and it's been quiet ever since.
Good Luck with yours!!
-------------------- Hawkeye: SSOA F98-C98
1998 SS - Black All Options - Mods Whisper Lid, K & N, Lou's Short Stick, Shift Light, Skip Shift, SLP Y, Borla, 4:10's, BMR STB, SLP SFCs, Granatelli MAF, Hypertech III, 160 Stat, Mallory Billet Pedals, Metco Aluminum LCAs,Fast Toys Ram Air Mod, Spohn Panhard Bar, BMR Torque Arm, free EGR mod,power antenna, BMR LCA brackets, Gentex Temp/Compass Auto Dim Mirror, AllMaxx Strobe and Wig Wag, BAER Eradispeed rotors,PPC Headers with Random Technology Hi Flow Cats, BMR Drive shaft Loop,FAST 78MM Throttle Body, FAST 78MM Composite Intake, Mobil 1 & lots of Zaino.
Wife & Best Friend Mary - copilot. Posts: 5558 | From: Windsor, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Hawkeye: Auburn in mine since new. No problems at all.
Same here... and the car sees a lot of track time each season (2-3 lapping days, 4-5 autoX events and 3 or 4 trips to the drag strip). The car has 85K KM.(53K miles) on the clock. I even grenaded my ring and pinion last year and the Auburn escaped undamaged! I change the fluid every 15-20K miles or so. BTW, Bill M has been to hell and back with his rear end problems (auto-related that is! ) and even managed to come out on the up side of negotiations with the local dealer who did the suspect work and who,in effect, caused most of these problems. He's seen it all!
posted
After hearing all this I'm definitely having my rear end (on the car) checked out. I've been hearin some clunking or grinding noises occasionally that sound like the rear tires rubbing on something. I thought it was bad bushings but now I'm wondering if it isn't the differential.
This may be just the motivation I needed to go ahead and put the 3.73 gears in the rear end.
quote:Originally posted by BigBlueSS: After hearing all this I'm definitely having my rear end (on the car) checked out. I've been hearin some clunking or grinding noises occasionally that sound like the rear tires rubbing on something. I thought it was bad bushings but now I'm wondering if it isn't the differential.
This may be just the motivation I needed to go ahead and put the 3.73 gears in the rear end.
Do you hear this sound going around corners? The rear tires/wheels can rub on the inner wheel well in soume cases.
It is easily fixed with a hammer. Look for a spot at the front of the wheel well near the bottom. If it is rubbing you will see the rub marks.
A couple of whacks with a hammer in this area will cure the problem. Worked for me.
Posts: 383 | From: Oakville, Ontario Canada | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Bill Mason: It is easily fixed with a hammer. Look for a spot at the front of the wheel well near the bottom. If it is rubbing you will see the rub marks.
A couple of whacks with a hammer in this area will cure the problem. Worked for me.
Y'all didn't know that Bill runs a body shop as a hobby in his spare time. He calls it "We Fix Things Cheap Autobody".
-------------------- My Cars: 2000 Bright Rally Red Camaro SS Convertible 2002 Electron Metallic Blue Berger SS T-Top 2004 Silver Birch Metallic Silverado 2500HD Duramax Ext. Cab. S.B. 4x4
posted
Auburn/Torsen...Don't know for sure, all i know is i've had no problems with my "older" 97' Torsen rear end....alot of debate on which of these 2 units is better....just some thoughts.
BadRag
-------------------- 97' SS Droptop Low, Loud, Fast & Black Posts: 468 | From: Ventura,Ca. | Registered: Jun 2002
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It sound like a 4x4 with some serious mud grips!![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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) and even managed to come out on the up side of negotiations with the local dealer who did the suspect work and who,in effect, caused most of these problems. He's seen it all!![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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