Second; anyone have any info on the G2 roll bar - particularly on the design that allows access to the rear seat?
Here's the info: HD 1.75" DOM tubing with mig welds. Significantly increases rigidity, even on cars with subframe connectors and engine braces (a must for convertibles). Bolt-in or weld-on design (requires removal of back seat, rear kick panels, and inside plastic door sills for installation, which can be re-installed after installation). Unique functional design provides full access to the rear seat and the ability to fold the rear seat down. Easy interior access (fits hardtop, T-tops, and convertible models). Durable powder coated wrinkle black finish. May not meet NHRA or SCCA specifications, but it is a fully functional design.
Finally; the any issues concerns about the 6 point Wolfe bar based on experience?
Where will heads without helmets be in proximity to the roll bar. Keep "crash dummy videos" in mind when considering body movement in an accident.
Padding will be pretty much mandatory for a street car.
If the roll bar doesn't meet SCCA or NHRA requirements, what purpose does it serve?
How is it going to impact the future value of the car?
Your answer may be very different than mine, but it took me nearly 4 years of deliberation to finally decide to keep the SS 'vert near stock, and to buy a beat up Z28 hardtop to set up as a no-compromise street/track car. I'm not far enough into that project yet, other than spending a bunch of money on parts, to decide if it was a good decision or not Posts: 4222 | From: Winnipeg MB CA | Registered: Feb 2000
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RagSS: Not to worry (yet), I'm just deliberating like Art says.
PoSSum: Your points are very well taken and provide good insight. My thoughts are to what extent can I strengthen the chassis, add some safety protection, and do so in a conservative and "tasteful" manner. Ideally, I would want a retractable bar with integrated windscreen (keep dreaming - I know!) like the Mercedes SL series. Failing that, if I were to go with a bar could I accomplish some of the above.
I have no plan to do this now, but wanted to start the deliberation, thought and research process.
I really like the windscreen idea but am not happy with blocking off the rear seat. This is another area where I am searching for ideas.
[ 25. July 2003, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: DaddySS ]
Posts: 3403 | From: Woodcliff Lake, NJ, USA | Registered: Dec 2000
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Have benn looking at the Wolfe also...but only want a 4pt, not to worried about resale value...the windscreen is a nice touch, but does take up too much room in the back seat, not that anyone ever sits there...i like the over the seat model for the roll bar, just some thoughts.
posted
I have a chrome roll bar. 5 point with a swing out bar. The back seat is affectively usless and especially so given it would be dangerous to have a passeneger in the back given the seat back bar accross the middle. I have the back bars going over the seat and they are slightly tapered which looks really good from behine. Really flatters the cars lines.
When I say tappered, the bars are fairly wide at the hoop and just tapper in slightly as they go over the back seat.
I'll try and get some pictures on the web.
My owwn view is that if you do not get the bar NHRA legal, it is not worth buying.
Posts: 117 | From: Surrey. BC | Registered: Oct 2001
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I'm sure I could fabricate one to fit all body styles, accept a wind screen for my convertible buddies, make it pleasing to the eye and functional 4 point attachment.
Yes the convertible C5's need this as an option as well.
Posts: 298 | From: Mason, OH | Registered: Feb 2003
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well I want a rollbar for safety, but hate giving up the backseat, since it seems people are always in the back, but they do look great. Those of you with the Wolfe, how far back does that middle bar go across, what I'm trying to get at is how far back can you put your seat before you hit that thing. This seems to be the biggest hassle, since you can't recline or push it back far, unless its bent so you can have room. Do any of you swear everytime you get in the car cause of it or is it standable. Also with having a rollcage after 13.99 aren't 5 points required as well.
Posts: 13 | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by DGOETZ: Roll bar hmmmm ?
I'm sure I could fabricate one to fit all body styles, accept a wind screen for my convertible buddies, make it pleasing to the eye and functional 4 point attachment.
Yes the convertible C5's need this as an option as well.
So..any progress? Posts: 3403 | From: Woodcliff Lake, NJ, USA | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:Originally posted by DGOETZ: Roll bar hmmmm ?
I'm sure I could fabricate one to fit all body styles, accept a wind screen for my convertible buddies, make it pleasing to the eye and functional 4 point attachment.
Yes the convertible C5's need this as an option as well.
So..any progress?
Rich, Progress is slow or maybe it's me. I want everything I make to be different from others which is code for better or not offered anywhere else. I would also like it if my customers didn't have to mutilate their cars to install them. There is also the issue of finding a suitable mule vehicle in this case a convertible. If it will fit a vert it will more than likely fit the coupes as well.
Now 5 point vs 4 point please help me understand where that 5th point is. I always think of these points as coming in even numbers.
posted
the four point has two on each end of the floor along the seats with the two going back towards the backseat. The 5th point is next to the front seat, a 6 point would have another bar as well next to the passenger seat. Since the sixth isn't required for the track, its not always used and is there for added strength.
Posts: 13 | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by James: the four point has two on each end of the floor along the seats with the two going back towards the backseat. The 5th point is next to the front seat, a 6 point would have another bar as well next to the passenger seat. Since the sixth isn't required for the track, its not always used and is there for added strength.
Thanks I'm up to speed now just need that mule car. What's the spec for tubing size and I suppose chro-moly steel?
quote:Originally posted by DGOETZ: If it will fit a vert it will more than likely fit the coupes as well.
Actually, I do believe the convertible has slightly more headroom than the coupe.
So if it fits my car, a hardtop, it may fit a convertible as well? Ok I'll take the car apart again. I still need the tubing size that will meet the various regulations
Posts: 298 | From: Mason, OH | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by DGOETZ: So if it fits my car, a hardtop, it may fit a convertible as well? Ok I'll take the car apart again. I still need the tubing size that will meet the various regulations
Well, I can't say that...I just know what I saved off GM's website: Head Room Front: 37.2 in. (Coupe) - 38.7 in. (Vert) Rear: 35.2 in. (Coupe) - 39.4 in. (Vert) Shoulder Room Front: 57.4 in. (both) Rear: 55.8 in. (Coupe) - 43.5 in. (Vert) Hip Room Front: 53.5 in. (both) Rear: 45.9 in. (Coupe) - 43.7 in. (Vert)
I threw that out there because I'd hate to see you spend all that time fitting it snug inside a vert and end up finding out it doesn't fit in a coupe.
Posts: 1143 | From: Portland, OR | Registered: Nov 2001
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That is one thing I won't do. I feel a cage takes away from the vert. I am modding, but only to make a car that can compete with an 03 cobra. The stock SS is fast, but with a few more little items, it makes it a geat conversation piece at local hangouts and local car shows
They can't understand how it could put down 390 at the wheels and be so quiet. I think a cage would take away from that. Then again, I won't be running any NHRA tracks more than once.
-------------------- Brian
2001 red SS Convertible #5479 out of 6332 CME, Grill, Chrome 10 spoke, Dash plaque, Cover Absolute Speed 5.3L stg. 2 heads, comp 978 dual springs, ti retainers, AS ported ls6 intake, AS ported 78mm TB, TR224/.564 114lsa, TTS headers,gmmg exhaust,and more.... 409/382 rwhp/rwtq tuned Posts: 216 | From: Western NC | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Ron2000SS: DON How about a Black roll bar with an addition fourth brakelight?
Ron your onto something here. Certainly easy enough to wire another light in parallel will the brake lights as is the 3rd light on our wings. It will help wake up those who follow even more. Hey what about a switch to turn it off when the top is up? Or would you prefer the red glow?
OBSSD - thanks for the info. Now what size tubing?
-------------------- 2002 Camaro SS Hardtop, NBM, 345 HP Dual-Dual, 6-speed w/Hurst, Ebony Leather, 1SD, Traction Control Mods: DGOETZ Fabrications - SFC's, STB and Tunnel Brace SLP - CAGS & Y-Pipe Hotchkis LCA, Dynamat Extreme, Chevrolet 35th LE front and rear lettering Posts: 298 | From: Mason, OH | Registered: Feb 2003
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Does anyone know of a company that make a styling bar for the camaro vert. like the mustang bars.....
Posts: 44 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Jul 2003
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Unlike that thing I'm sure Don could come up with something similar that would "provide structural support". At least thats what Im hoping for. Lets put lights, signals and brake lights on it and interconnect to top switch so that when top is up the lights are off and also that it adds to the main roof support.
Posts: 5 | From: Livonia, MI | Registered: Aug 2003
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I would show interest in a 'Vert 4 point roll bar, especially if I don't have to demolish the interior to install it. I don't think adding lights is necessary, the back seats are unusable, so I don't care if it intrudes on the room. A really cool feature would be a removeable bar with a slip fit and locking pins, if such a design is possible. I would love to have a wind screen.
Posts: 18 | From: Castaic So Cal | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Bad XXX: I would show interest in a 'Vert 4 point roll bar, especially if I don't have to demolish the interior to install it. I don't think adding lights is necessary, the back seats are unusable, so I don't care if it intrudes on the room. A really cool feature would be a removeable bar with a slip fit and locking pins, if such a design is possible. I would love to have a wind screen.
Roland that's a cool idea. So if I do it will you buy one? I'm kidding I have the vert SFC's your car still needs
Ok I found out the tubing spec wall thickness is .134" and 1-5/8" or 1-3/4" O.D.
I have the design parameters now who has the mule?
Posts: 298 | From: Mason, OH | Registered: Feb 2003
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BTW Don, on a completely unrelated note....I was in Mason Ohio on Thursday! Posts: 3403 | From: Woodcliff Lake, NJ, USA | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:Originally posted by DGOETZ: Rich You need to let me know when your within a 100 mile radius of Cincinnati, OH.
Will you be passing through Cincinnati oon your way to BG? I would be happy to give you a tour of the factory Thank you Don
I was there to visit a vendor and probably won't be the last visit. Next time I'm there I'll let you know - love to see the shop.
Posts: 3403 | From: Woodcliff Lake, NJ, USA | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote: A really cool feature would be a removeable bar with a slip fit and locking pins, if such a design is possible. I would love to have a wind screen.
A very neat Idea, a removable 4-pt. that takes two people less than five minutes to drop on and set the lock pins...with wind screen, of course.
posted
Don, if you can build a removable roll bar, I would be one of many who would want one. Still trying to decide on SFC color, if I can ever get my car to run right, I can start to concentrate on the chassis.
Posts: 18 | From: Castaic So Cal | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by DGOETZ: Rich You need to let me know when your within a 100 mile radius of Cincinnati, OH.
Will you be passing through Cincinnati oon your way to BG? I would be happy to give you a tour of the factory Thank you Don
I was there to visit a vendor and probably won't be the last visit. Next time I'm there I'll let you know - love to see the shop.
I'm happy to give tours of the factory. Let's see move the wife's car, sweep the floor...probably wouldn't hurt to cut the grass. Ok I think I'm ready for tours.
-------------------- 2002 Camaro SS Hardtop, NBM, 345 HP Dual-Dual, 6-speed w/Hurst, Ebony Leather, 1SD, Traction Control Mods: DGOETZ Fabrications - SFC's, STB and Tunnel Brace SLP - CAGS & Y-Pipe Hotchkis LCA, Dynamat Extreme, Chevrolet 35th LE front and rear lettering Posts: 298 | From: Mason, OH | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Bad XXX: Don, if you can build a removable roll bar, I would be one of many who would want one. Still trying to decide on SFC color, if I can ever get my car to run right, I can start to concentrate on the chassis.
The Black will blend into the car and the Bright Rally Red will be noticeable only to the trained eye.I can email you a picture of the red ones on an LE if that will help
Now I know you have a sweet looking Red Vert with a missing tunnel brace I can help out with that too. Email me for a BAD XXX Deal.
posted
Don... email me offline at paul.gebhardt@adelphia.net.
I have a thought for you about a test mule.
Posts: 3 | From: Maryland - where you need a fast car to escape the snipers | Registered: Oct 2002
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Don't care about the 4th brake lite, does it come with a wind screen? How does the 2 pts in the back mount? over the seat or to the sides? will i have to cut the cover for the top if over the seats? Just some questions.
Thanks, BadRag
-------------------- 97' SS Droptop Low, Loud, Fast & Black Posts: 468 | From: Ventura,Ca. | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by BadRag: Don't care about the 4th brake lite, does it come with a wind screen? How does the 2 pts in the back mount? over the seat or to the sides? will i have to cut the cover for the top if over the seats? Just some questions.
Thanks, BadRag
I have not begun design yet I trying to find a suitable mule for the project. I have had offers but I will gut the interior for this project and don't want to do that to a new car. Windscreen capable? yes part of the design criteria
-------------------- 2002 Camaro SS Hardtop, NBM, 345 HP Dual-Dual, 6-speed w/Hurst, Ebony Leather, 1SD, Traction Control Mods: DGOETZ Fabrications - SFC's, STB and Tunnel Brace SLP - CAGS & Y-Pipe Hotchkis LCA, Dynamat Extreme, Chevrolet 35th LE front and rear lettering Posts: 298 | From: Mason, OH | Registered: Feb 2003
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Hey guys. Haven't posted here in a while and my car has come a long way since then. One of the recent modifications I did was install a 8 point S+W full race cage. I couldn't make 1 pass before getting tossed. Plus I knew it would look good with the top down.
When I got the kit I chose to modify it a bit to compromise with street driving. I ended up adding duel swingout bars on each side and I left out the loop to trans tunnel bars so back seat use wasn't completly finished. After about 3 months of driving with the rear seat crossbar in I just couldn't take it no more. The seats were pinned up against the steering wheel and it was only comfortable for about 20 minutes. I ended up cutting that bar out as well. The end result turned out nice and I get a lot of compliments for it. I don't ever get complaints from the track officials and half the cage is now missing. Apparently theres just enough to shut them up though. Here are a few pics. I have more angles but need to scan them.
Posts: 14 | From: philly, PA | Registered: Nov 2001
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I assume your asking about mine? My rear bars are going down in between the rear seat and the side speaker panel. If you pull out the back seat and speaker panel theres like a ledge that i mounted the plates on. I didn't have to modify the panels for that and the seat and panel fit right back in.
The only problem i have stumbled on is the rear seat doesn't fold down and it never crossed my mind when installing. Oh well. I havn't needed to yet anyway.
-------------------- '98 LS1 conv.
http://hometown.aol.com/laidbackinblack/myhomepage/index.html Posts: 14 | From: philly, PA | Registered: Nov 2001
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