quote:Originally posted by HOSS: [b] Here's a straight forward question for everyone planning on voting for John Kerry in this election...
Why will you vote for John Kerry?
I will vote for John Kerry.
Why?
1. He is NOT George Dubya Bush. thats an intelligent reason
2. Kerry is a decorated combat veteran (3 Purple Hearts, 1 Bronze Star, and 1 Silver Star) and has first-hand experience of what our troops are going through right now. Even thought he grew up in a privileged environment, Kerry chose to serve his country and fight along side his fellow man. He will NOT place our troops, our sons, daughters, fathers and mothers in harm’s way unless it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for the security of the United States. ….Unlike Dubya, who hid behind his daddy’s skirts and used his family’s name and power to receive a much safer placement in the National Guard. Sadly, he did not fulfill his duties and cannot provide any form of evidence that he completed his obligation – in fact, he was missing for at least 18 months from his duties. Can you say AWOL? Nowadays, Dubya likes to dress up and pretend that he’s a TopGun pilot in million-dollar photo-ops (at taxpayer expense, I might add) and send real soldiers to war. Mission accomplished? Riiiiight. Sure it is. Anyone care to guess how many more years our troops will have to stay in Iraq?
Not even his commander in Nam thinks he is qualified.. he was there for 4 months and weasled away 3 PH's as fast as he could.. know how long he was out for his THREE wounds? two days!! lol.. then he came back and slammed his fellow soliders by saying they were murderers and commited atrocities..
3. Dubya misled the American people to justify an unjustified war. Where are the WMDs? Where is the imminent threat? Dubya, Cheney and company went out of their way and scared the HELL out of America to justify this war and it was absolutely not necessary. Sure, Saddam was an evil sonofabitch (and I’m glad he’s gone) but that was NOT the reason used to gain the support of the American people. Dubya has opened a huge can of worms that will haunt this country for years to come. And this is from the man who campaigned on the premise that he did not believe in “nation building”.
misled nothing.. he thought (as did the world) that Iraq had WMD and was a threat.. so did everyone else in congress (including Kerry) who voted for the war
4. Osama Bin Laden. Remember him? Oh yeah, that’s right. He’s the rotten, filthy, murderous, piece of crap that was the mastermind of 9/11.....
come on now.. bush NEVER said Iraq had anything to do with 9/11.. if so then show me.. im waiting... still waiting...
In case you missed the news.. we are still in Afganistan looking for Osama.. i guess you feel we cant do two things at once? good thing you were not in charge for WWII
5. Kerry believes that it is better to create good jobs that stay in America. Dubya’s guy said it is good for America that jobs are being outsourced to other countries. At least 2.1 million jobs have been lost since President George W. Bush took office—the worst overall job growth rate under any president in 58 years.
There is no way to stop outsourcing of jobs overseas.. its the same deal as when mfg jobs left a while back. in a free market economy the public demands the lowest priced goods well to compete companies cut costs. One way is by sending jobs overseas.. Here is a question: How many OVERSEAS companies employee american citizens here???? maybe the people in those countries should be crying about the "outsourcing" to america..
You mention jobs loss but thats a weak and misleading way to do it.. how many were created? deduct that from the 2.1 mil and you have the REAL number.. factor in there the chaos of 9/11 and the resession and it wont seem nearly as bad.. oh, the recession started BEFORE GWB took office
How many of the Heinz companies are located in the US? How many overseas?
6. What ever happened to fiscal responsibility? As of today, our national debt is $7,208, 319,637, 963.41. That works out to a little over $24,501.31 for every man, woman and child in the USA. It’s growing by over $1.73 billion per day. Instead of asking America to share the burden in setting our fiscal house in order, Dubya rewards the rich with huge tax cuts, leaving the middle and lower-classes to fend for themselves. The GOP’s economic motto: Leave No Millionaire Behind.
got me there.. GWB does spend too much but rich people deserve high tax break since they pay most of the taxes.. something like the top 50% of the US pays 97% of the taxes..
Oh, Kerrys wife paid and effective tax rate of only 11% last year.. how do you spell hypocryte?
7. My own special pet peeve: Dubya is an embarrassment to America when he speaks. I swear, the man is incapable of stringing together a coherent sentence. Every time he opens his mouth, I want to puke. (It should be noted that when Kerry speaks, I merely fall asleep).
GWB sure is no Clinton.. but i would rather have a poor speaker that means what he says than an eloquent liar
8. Are you enjoying our high gasoline prices? What do you expect when two oilmen are running the country? Their answer? Drill more. Kerry’s answer? Save more. Gee, its too bad that all those big SUVs (mine included) aren’t subject to the same standards that gave me a 400+ hp f-body that gets 28+ MPG on the highway.
if GWB controls the oil (thats a joke that only shows a lack of knowledge of the oil market) then why isnt gas $.80 a gallon, thus ensuring GWB a second term???
Im sure Kerry is saving a lot more gas in his SUV's(well not HIS but his FAMILIES), private yaght, private jet and multiple mansions.. How is Kerry going to save more? make SUV's illegal? open the strategic reserve? (a stupid move that will lower gas prices .05 cents a gallon (maybe) and leave us weakened from a national security standpoint. And whats wrong with drilling more? Dont harp and not drilling then whine about gas prices.. at least be consitent
9. Lastly, Kerry is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. He believes that law-abiding American adults have the right to own guns. He, like most reasonable people, supports closing the gun show loophole, which is allowing criminals to get access to guns at gun shows without background checks, and will strive to fix the background check system, which is in a serious state of disrepair. As a gun-owner and enthusiast, this gun-totin' liberal has no fear that a Kerry administration will threaten my right to keep and bare arms.
and i feel the same that GWB will not infringe on my "rights to bear arms".. wonder who the NRA supports?
Just my .08 cents.. when you adjust for inflation its only .02 [/qb]
quote:Originally posted by HOSS: Here's a straight forward question for everyone planning on voting for John Kerry in this election...
Why will you vote for John Kerry?
I will vote for John Kerry.
Why?
1. He is NOT George Dubya Bush.
Again, I preface this with my rebuttal is nothing personal. I'm looking at the post quality itself and offering my viewpoint on the issues. Everyone always has a right to disagree with me.
That was fair on a scale of poor to excellent. There was like only two or three references to why one would think Kerry was more qualified to be president. The majority of it was the same ol' Democratic stale song of attacking Mr. Bush personally instead of the issues (see reference 1. above). I thought Ted Kennedy logged on for a second there. And as far as disagreeing with policy, I'm accomodating to other people's opinions and can accept it if someone says that they think U.S. shouldn't have gone to war, they think that we went to war for the wrong reasons, etc., since that is disagreeing with a policy, but when people say that Bush misled America, those same people cannot come up with one shred of evidence to prove that as fact, ergo, it's not a valid argument. They attack the person instead of the issues, and that is usually due to having little to no valid arguments about the issues to begin with and more to do with just trying to get to people emotionally riled. Well, I for one do get a bit emotional. The emotion is sadness. To see people reduce themselves to attacking a fellow American on a personal level, we might as well help the terrorists. I won't be voting for Kerry, but it's not because he's a bad man or stupid or anything like that. He's quite bright and seems like a genuinely likeable person. But I don't see eye to eye with his outlook for America, and wouldn't feel comfortable with him at the helm. Heck, I agreed more with Clinton's policies than I do with Kerry's proposed ones. Thusly, I won't be voting for him. Very simple. I don't agree with most of his proposed policies. I don't agree with all of Bush's either, but I think his vision is better for America than Kerry's. That's my opinion. Notice I didn't attack Kerry personally.
If you don't agree with policy, Ok, that's your opinion. But to declare as unproven facts that Bush misled America, or imply he's stupid because he doesn't know 10 dollar words, etc., is akin to saying that you're a freakin' idiot if you own an F-body. Everyone knows that the real performance is Ford Cobra.
Here's probably a better argument for voting for Kerry...I actually was shocked not to hear some of these views. These are hypothetical examples for the sake of example, not my actual opinion.
Kerry served in VietNam. He's not unfamiliar with military operations. He gives every impression of being a decent military leader. Kerry has a plan to lower costs for Medicare and I happen to agree. Kerry wants to help the working man. Kerry wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts and get America out of debt. Kerry has a plan to get our troops out of Iraq.
... as you can see, these would be MUCH more believable reasons to vote for Kerry than turning into a personal attack on Bush.
Perhaps the Kerry supporters would have more luck if they approached people as if they're sitting on the fence and need to be persuaded why Kerry is the better choice. Then maybe we can learn why Dems think he should be president rather than why Bush shouldn't be.
Posts: 577 | From: Aiken, SC | Registered: May 2002
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I have nothing against dems.. but can you really tell me Kerry is the BEST they have to offer? He is trying to pretend he is a moderate when the facts show he is the most liberal Senator we have. I can think of many democrats that I would not be fearful to have in office.. Kerry is NOT one of them..
And i think GWB is FAR from perfect.. he spends too much on social crap.. Even though he went into Iraq with good intentions I dont think they thought the exit strategy through enough. He plays too nice with Mexico and a few other things.
BUT he has moral clarity.. he DOES not do what thinks the popular opinion says he should do.. while Kerry is reading the polls and trying to decide what if any position he should have on a subjet GWB is MAKING DECISIONS.. right or wrong he does what he belives needs to be done.
I laugh at the "vote for kerry because he is NOT bush" crowd.. It shows that they really dont belive Kerry is good, they just support him because he isnt Bush..
Kerry did serve us in Vietnam and i applaud him for that but he wears its like a beacon that says "I did the NAM so anything else I do is off limits to talk about!!".. the fact is that he was ashamed of his brief service in Vietnam until it became "popular" to have served there.. why do you think so many vets oppose him?
All in all these threads are pointless.. those that are so blinded by hate for GWB will see nothing else.. all will continue to be his fault and they will never admit that he has done anything right..
Just ask yourself on election day.. if Osama could vote who would he choose to have in office.. Kerry or Bush..
-------------------- Had a blingin' 2000 SS
Now I have a "soon to be" blingin' LS1 powered 1969 SS
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Steven...most awesome job. Again, nothing against members on the other side of this arguement, I just happen to agree with Steven and el. The two of them have done an excellent job of detailing the facts and truths.
And just because it's worth repeating...
Clumbsy speaker with moral clarity over elequent liar any day.
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CAMSS: No personal flame intended, but regarding Kerry's stance on the Second Amendment, he and the media have duped you. He say's he is for law abiding gun ownership, but his voting record speaks for itself, voting alongside the worst enemies of the Second Amendment, including Diane Fienstien, Chucky Schumer, Franky Lautenburg, Barby Boxer, and Ted "leave the scene and let her drown" Kennedy. Kerry's voting record may be summarized in one word... Appalling.
And the gun show loophole is a mainstream media fallacy. According to the Dept. of Justice, less than 1% of guns used in crimes are purchased at gun shows. Guns used for terrorism don't even make it into the stats with regard to gun shows. Only those guns privately bought and sold at gun shows, i.e. no gun dealer sales, are NOT required to be background checked (which make up for a relatively low number of sales each year). The same applies for anyone privately selling a gun to someone else at any time. To effectively ban private sales at gun shows means we need to ban private sales everywhere. Shall we take away this freedom of the law abiding, as if criminals will stop the present illegal transfer of firearms because one more idiotic law is passed? Smell the toast... it's burning. Oh wait, no, that's the Constitution burning.
-------------------- '00 SS #6522 Black on Black T-Top MN6
Have You Forgotten How You Felt That Day? Never Forget 9/11/01. Posts: 184 | From: Harleysville, Pennsylvania | Registered: May 2000
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-------------------- 1968 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe RS/SS 350 - Quasar Blue, LOADED and just happens to be my pride and joy. 2002 BMW 540i 6-speed - Jet Black, nicely optioned (Daily Driver) 2000 BMW 323i 5-speed - Titanium Silver, nicely optioned (Wifes car)
-------------------- 1968 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe RS/SS 350 - Quasar Blue, LOADED and just happens to be my pride and joy. 2002 BMW 540i 6-speed - Jet Black, nicely optioned (Daily Driver) 2000 BMW 323i 5-speed - Titanium Silver, nicely optioned (Wifes car)
quote:Originally posted by ss_rs_z: Wrong, everything written in my previous thread is complete and truthful. ...
Everything you have written is complete blubberish and total Republican BS.
There you have the democratic thought process.. EVERYTHING they say is the truth.. EVERYTHING we say is a lie.. how can you reason with someone that hold this view????
-------------------- Had a blingin' 2000 SS
Now I have a "soon to be" blingin' LS1 powered 1969 SS
quote:Originally posted by ss_rs_z: Wrong, everything written in my previous thread is complete and truthful. ...
Everything you have written is complete blubberish and total Republican BS.
There you have the democratic thought process.. EVERYTHING they say is the truth.. EVERYTHING we say is a lie.. how can you reason with someone that hold this view????
You don't.........just hope and pray we out vote them
Tom
Posts: 88 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ss_rs_z: Wrong, everything written in my previous thread is complete and truthful. ...
Everything you have written is complete blubberish and total Republican BS.
There you have the democratic thought process.. EVERYTHING they say is the truth.. EVERYTHING we say is a lie.. how can you reason with someone that hold this view????
You don't.........just hope and pray we out vote them
Tom
You don't reason with them I learned that with my father, funny thing he worked all his life and died poor and I had to pay for his funeral. As for out voting them I did one thing I gave my kids a good education and between me and Cindy we have 9 kids all married but 2 and us and all of them will vote for Bush along with many of my cousins so we will out vote a few around here.
Most people can't see the forest for the trees is why I never reason with them. As for my dad I loved him just thought he was nuts. At least those on the other side vote and thats the main thing which gives them the right to post what they think as I do because I always vote Posts: 737 | From: Siler City N.C. | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Last year's local elections I took my 8 year old daughter withme to vote. I tried to explain to her how the process works and the importance of voting. Posts: 545 | From: Gardnerville, NV. | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mike2001SS: As for my dad I loved him just thought he was nuts.
Same with my Grandfather...STAUNCH Dem...he and I spoke politics one day (which was the last time we did that). He hated the Republican party and stated "What has the Republican Party ever done for me". I was appalled at that statement, I wanted to say...what have you done for YOURSELF, but refrained out of respect. He died poor too, living off of Social Security.
Gotta love that hand out, what are you gonna do for me attitude. Meanwhile the ones in power want you to live in squalor while they get rich off your taxes. Hypocrytes...
-------------------- 1968 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe RS/SS 350 - Quasar Blue, LOADED and just happens to be my pride and joy. 2002 BMW 540i 6-speed - Jet Black, nicely optioned (Daily Driver) 2000 BMW 323i 5-speed - Titanium Silver, nicely optioned (Wifes car)
quote:Originally posted by ss_rs_z: Wrong, everything written in my previous thread is complete and truthful. ...
Everything you have written is complete blubberish and total Republican BS.
There you have the democratic thought process.. EVERYTHING they say is the truth.. EVERYTHING we say is a lie.. how can you reason with someone that hold this view????
Lets see what happens come Election Day. You say you can't reason with me but truthfully you can. As I stated before I am NOT Republican nor Democrat. Everyone has the right to their opinions and I respect everyones around here.
So when Election Day comes and I will be in line as I have since 1980 we will see the outcome. I am just glad that I DO vote so I can say what I believe. As far as I am concerned neither one is a viable candidate but to each his/her own.
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I want to say this about this subject. We are all friends here and have different views on lots of things but we agree on more than we disagree. Look over seas at how all the different parties in the Arab world hate the other side completely. I hope we never get to the point we hate the other person because he is the other party and I am seeing to much of that these days aready. What ever you feel in your heart is right and vote that way I congrat you for doing every Americans duty.
-------------------- Willard (Mike) Scott Worldwide Camaro Club North Carolina state Rep. 2001 SS convertible with all SLP opts. Sunset Orange Neutral top Neutral leather http://community.webshots.com/user/wmss Posts: 737 | From: Siler City N.C. | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mike2001SS: I want to say this about this subject. We are all friends here and have different views on lots of things but we agree on more than we disagree. Look over seas at how all the different parties in the Arab world hate the other side completely. I hope we never get to the point we hate the other person because he is the other party and I am seeing to much of that these days aready. What ever you feel in your heart is right and vote that way I congrat you for doing every Americans duty.
I totally agree Mike. Excellent words of wisdom. Posts: 2841 | From: Westland, MI | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mark IXZD 150: I can wrap this whole conversation up right here, right now with this...
Has anyone seen Kerry's ugly hag of a wife? I'll take sweet Laura over that troll any day.
Woooooof.....
I bet if Kerry gets elected...you'll see pretty interns around.....a la Clinton. Posts: 700 | From: Fighting the Nazis of the world..... | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mark IXZD 150: I can wrap this whole conversation up right here, right now with this...
Has anyone seen Kerry's ugly hag of a wife? I'll take sweet Laura over that troll any day.
Yeah- however $ 500M does change your perception of beauty!
What do you think the public's reaction will be if all of the groups she helps subsidize is blared all over the tube?)
Rhetorical question: If Laura Bush was this wealthy (and foreign-born) and contributed to similar right-wing groups- what would the Dem mouthpieces be screaming?
Posts: 185 | From: Livermore, CA | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
You know what just hit me as being funny, after reading all this us adults can be as cruel as school kids were when I went to school back in the stone age.
-------------------- Willard (Mike) Scott Worldwide Camaro Club North Carolina state Rep. 2001 SS convertible with all SLP opts. Sunset Orange Neutral top Neutral leather http://community.webshots.com/user/wmss Posts: 737 | From: Siler City N.C. | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mike2001SS: You know what just hit me as being funny, after reading all this us adults can be as cruel as school kids were when I went to school back in the stone age.
And whoo sez U don't 'member nuttin' when you wer a kid?
Posts: 577 | From: Aiken, SC | Registered: May 2002
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Comments from men who served with Kerry in VietNam *******************************************
Regardless of your political views---this is worth reading !
Subject: NAVY SWIFT BOAT QUOTES
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"We resent very deeply the false war crimes charges he made coming back from Vietnam in 1971 and repeated in the book "Tour of Duty." We think those cast an aspersion on all those living and dead, from our unit and other units in Vietnam. We think that he knew he was lying when he made the charges, and we think that they're unsupportable. We intend to bring the truth about that to the American people.
We believe, based on our experience with him, that he is totally unfit to be the Commander-in-Chief."
-- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth
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"I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust -- all absolute tenets of command. His biography, 'Tour of Duty,' by Douglas Brinkley, is replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact, contradictions and slanderous lies. His contempt for the military and authority is evident by even a most casual review of this biography. He arrived in-country with a strong anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political future. He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with disregard for specific tactical assignments. He was a 'loose cannon.' In an abbreviated tour of four months and 12 days, and with his specious medals secure, Lt.(jg) Kerry bugged out and began his infamous betrayal of all United States forces in the Vietnam War. That included our soldiers, our marines, our sailors, our coast guardsmen, our airmen, and our POWs. His leadership within the so-called Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testimony before Congress in 1971 charging us with unspeakable atrocities remain an undocumented but nevertheless meticulous stain on the men and women who honorably stayed the course. Senator Kerry is not fit for command."
-- Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, USN (retired), chairman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth
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"During Lt.(jg) Kerry's tour, he was under my command for two or three specific operations, before his rapid exit. Trust, loyalty and judgment are the key, operative words. His turncoat performance in 1971 in his grubby shirt and his medal-tossing escapade, coupled with his slanderous lines in the recent book portraying us that served, including all POWs and MIAs, as murderous war criminals, I believe, will have a lasting effect on all military veterans and their families.
Kerry would be described as devious, self-absorbing, manipulative, disdain for authority, disruptive, but the most common phrase that you'd hear is 'requires constant supervision.'"
-- Captain Charles Plumly, USN (retired)
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"Thirty-five years ago, many of us fell silent when we came back to the stain of sewage that Mr. Kerry had thrown on us, and all of our colleagues who served over there. I don't intend to be silent today or ever again. Our young men and women who are serving deserve no less."
-- Andrew Horne
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"In my specific, personal experience in both coastal and river patrols over a 12-month period, I never once saw or heard anything remotely resembling the atrocities described by Senator Kerry. If I had, it would have been my obligation to report them in writing to a higher authority, and I would certainly have done that. If Senator Kerry actually witnessed or participated in these atrocities or, as he described them, 'war crimes,' he was obligated to report them. That he did not until later when it suited his political purposes strikes me as opportunism of the worst kind. That he would malign my service and that of his fellow sailors with no regard for the truth makes him totally unqualified to serve as Commander-in-Chief."
-- Jeffrey Wainscott
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"I signed that letter because I, too felt a deep sense of betrayal that someone who took the same oath of loyalty as I did as an officer in the United States Navy would abandon his group here (points to group photo) to join this group here (points to VVAW protest photo), and come home and attempt to rally the American public against the effort that this group was so valiantly pursuing.
It is a fact that in the entire Vietnam War we did not lose one major battle. We lost the war at home... and at home, John Kerry was the Field General."
-- Robert Elder
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"My daughters and my wife have read portions of the book 'Tour of Duty.' They wanted to know if I took part in the atrocities described. I do not believe the things that are described happened.
Let me give you an example. In Brinkley's book, on pages 170 to 171, about something called the 'Bo De massacre' on November 24th of 1968... In Kerry's description of the engagement, first he claimed there were 17 servicemen that were wounded. Three of us were wounded. I was the first..."
-- Joseph Ponder
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"While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.
Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good old USA after 4 months and a few days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates, calling them criminals who were committing atrocities. Today we are here to tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people -- fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take friendly casualties."
-- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)
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"Lt. Kerry returned home from the war to make some outrageous statements and allegations... of numerous criminal acts in violation of the law of war were cited by Kerry, disparaging those who had fought with honor in that conflict. Had war crimes been committed by US forces in Vietnam? Yes, but such acts were few and far between. Yet Lt. Kerry have numerous speeches and testimony before Congress inappropriately leading his audiences to believe that what was only an anomaly in the conduct of America's fighting men was an epidemic. Furthermore, he suggested that they were being encouraged to violated the law of war by those within the chain of command.
Very specific orders, on file at the Vietnam archives at Texas Tech University, were issued by my father [Admiral Elmo Zumwalt] and others in his chain of command instructing subordinates to act responsibly in preserving the life and property of Vietnamese civilians."
-- Lt. Col. James Zumwalt, USMC (retired)
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"We look at Vietnam... after all these years it is still languishing in isolated poverty and helplessness and tyranny. This is John Kerry's legacy. I deeply resent John Kerry's using his Swift boat experience, and his betrayal of those who fought there as a stepping-stone to his political ambitions."
-- Barnard Wolff
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"In a whole year that I spent patrolling, I didn't see anything like a war crime, an atrocity, anything like that. Time and again I saw American fighting men put themselves in graver danger trying to avoid... collateral damage.
When John Kerry returned to the country, he was sworn in front of Congress. And then he told my family -- my parents, my sister, my brother, my neighbors -- he told everyone I knew and everyone I'd ever know that I and my comrades had committed unspeakable atrocities."
-- David Wallace
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"I served with these guys. I went on missions with them, and these men served honorably. Up and down the chain of command there was no acquiescence to atrocities. It was not condoned, it did not happen, and it was not reported to me verbally or in writing by any of these men including Lt.(jg) Kerry.
In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television audiences and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all villains -- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has appeared, running for President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief. It just galls one to think about it."
-- Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)
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"During the Vietnam War I was Task Force Commander at An Thoi, and my tour of duty was 13 months, from the end of Tet to the beginning of the Vietnamization of the Navy units.
Now when I went there right after Tet, I was restricted in my movements. I couldn't go much of anyplace because the Vietcong controlled most of the area. When I left, I could go anywhere I wanted, just about. Commerce was booming, the buses were running, trucks were going, the waterways were filled with sampans with goods going to market, but yet in Kerry's biography he says that our operations were a complete failure. He also mentions a formal conference with me, to try to get more air cover and so on. That conference never happened..."
-- Captain Adrian Lonsdale, USCG (retired)
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"I was in An Thoi from June of '68 to June of '69, covering the whole period that John Kerry was there. I operated in every river, in every canal, and every off-shore patrol area in the 4th Corps area, from Cambodia all the way around to the Bo De River. I never saw, even heard of all of these so-called atrocities and things that we were supposed to have done.
This is not true. We're not standing for it. We want to set the record straight."
-- William Shumadine
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"In 1971, when John Kerry spoke out to America, labeling all Vietnam veterans as thugs and murderers, I was shocked and almost brought to my knees, because even though I had served at the same time and same unit, I had never witnessed or participated in any of the events that the Senator had accused us of. I strongly believe that the statements made by the Senator were not only false and inaccurate, but extremely harmful to the United States' efforts in Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. Tragically, some veterans, scorned by the antiwar movement and their allies, retreated to a life of despair and suicide. Two of my crewmates were among them. For that there is no forgiveness. "
-- Richard O'Meara
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"My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"
-- Steven Gardner
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"I served in Vietnam as a boat officer from June of 1968 to July of 1969. My service was three months in Coastal Division 13 out of Cat Lo, and nine months with Coastal Division 11 based in An Thoi. John Kerry was in An Thoi the same time I was. I'm here today to express the anger I have harbored for over 33 years, about being accused with my fellow shipmates of war atrocities.
All I can say is when I leave here today, I'm going down to the Wall to tell my two crew members it's not true, and that they and the other 49 Swiftees who are on the Wall were then and are still now the best."
-- Robert Brant
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"I never saw, heard of, or participated in any Swift boat crews killing cattle, poisoning crops, or raping and killing civilians as charged by John Kerry, both in his book and in public statements. Since we both operated at the same time, in the same general area, and on the same missions under the same commanders, it is hard to believe his claims of atrocities and poor planning of Sea Lord missions.
I signed this letter because I feel that he used Swift boat sailors to proclaim his antiwar statements after the war, and now he uses the same Swift boat sailors to support his claims of being a war hero. He cannot have it both ways, and we are here to ask for full disclosure of the proof of his claims."
-- James Steffes
. Can you read this and tell any of these 18 men they are wrong about Kerry. Kerry shouldn't even be a Senator ~~ he should be court-martialled.
-------------------- 1968 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe RS/SS 350 - Quasar Blue, LOADED and just happens to be my pride and joy. 2002 BMW 540i 6-speed - Jet Black, nicely optioned (Daily Driver) 2000 BMW 323i 5-speed - Titanium Silver, nicely optioned (Wifes car)
posted
Not telling me nothing I did not know about him. Alot if people may noy like alot of things about Bush but one thing is for sure Kerry is not the man to replace him. Sad part is the Dems don't have anyone right now worthy of running against Bush. On the Dem Side I would have taken John Edwards over the rest anyday
-------------------- Willard (Mike) Scott Worldwide Camaro Club North Carolina state Rep. 2001 SS convertible with all SLP opts. Sunset Orange Neutral top Neutral leather http://community.webshots.com/user/wmss Posts: 737 | From: Siler City N.C. | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mike2001SS: Not telling me nothing I did not know about him. Alot if people may noy like alot of things about Bush but one thing is for sure Kerry is not the man to replace him. Sad part is the Dems don't have anyone right now worthy of running against Bush. On the Dem Side I would have taken John Edwards over the rest anyday
Yeah, John Edwards may lack in experience vs. Kerry, but everything I've heard from him is straightforward, no BS. I don't necessarily agree with all he says, but at least I feel like he's not pulling wool. He's an atypical democrat in that while he is for socialism type programs, he is strong in his convictions and unwavering. Gotta respect a guy like that. He's also got the charisma that Kerry lacks. Only hope for him though is to be picked to be a running mate and then someone have an "accident".
Posts: 577 | From: Aiken, SC | Registered: May 2002
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Fbodfather
They don't make songs about Volvos.
Member # 1119
posted
wow...points all over the place.....
Here's what REALLY bugs me:
We were attacked on 9/11........we've tried the UN resolution routine...that didn't work. (in fact, it would be laughable if it weren't so sad) We tried diplomacy.....that didn't work.
As to weapons of mass destruction...I ask the question once again (from page one...) HOW did all those Kurds die? We've already established (thank you Millie!) that it wasn't purple koolaid. So I don't buy the argument about 'we shouldn't be there 'cause we haven't found WMD.
Look....there's a lot of people in this world that want us dead. Simple as that. And they aren't afraid to go to any length to see that this happens. I can't see that sitting back and doing nothing is the right thing to do. I still go back to 1939 and Churchill and Roosevelt....go read the newspapers and transcripts...almost scary how much it sounds like the past 5 years.
I have a good friend that I've talked with for hours and hours (days and days) trying to understand (for lack of a better term) the left and her position that we shouldn't have gone into Iraq. Still haven't figured it out.....BUT......she was adamant that we should not go into Iraq.....so....I asked her this question: OK...you have two daughters....you go out in the yard one day and one of them has a gun...and is waving it around....and you tell her to put it down...and she points it at her younger sister....and pulls the trigger....thank God it wasn't loaded.
Now....are you gonna use diplomacy? Or are you gonna ground the hell outta her until she turns 35??? I guaran-damn-tee you that you aren't gonna use diplomacy.
Now...some of you may think..well, Scott...what a stupid analogy....but I ask you to think about it for a minute.
As to Mr. Kerry......judging by his record, I think he probably uses a Ouija Board to make decisions......
OK...I'll shut up now......
That said....convince me otherwise. I like to think I have an open mind.
-------------------- Posts: 749 | From: Detroit | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
First off I was behind Gephardt from the get go. I figured he would be the one that could do a good job in leading this country and was stunned that he was outvoted from the very beginning. As for Kerry I think he would do something about Healthcare, do what he could to stem the tide of jobs going overseas, and I think he really believes in this country. This is all I am going to say on this subject.
Scott your analogy is not stupid. We all have our beliefs and from what I have read I truly respect yours and everyone elses feelings. To me though I think Bush had been hiding something about an imminent attack before 9/11 and from what I have been hearing on the News and reading about it Tenet told him "several" times that an attack was coming but alas nothing was done to possibly or even remotely prevent it. Ever since 1993 when the first attack on the WTC happened I always wondered if it could happen again. Doesn't anyone think that extra measures should have been taken at that site and everywhere else just in case? I am not trying to convince anyone that one person is better than the other or put down his or her feelings about whom they are backing in this election year. As far as I am concerned I don't trust Politicians period. And as for the WMD's weren't those suppose to have been eliminated after the first Gulf War when inspectors were pursuing to find them and and destroy them before they were kicked out of the Country?
This is all I will say on this matter as well. We all stand behind how we feel and that is all that matters. This is a right we were given by our Forefathers and I am grateful to them for this.
quote:Originally posted by ss_rs_z: ...As for Kerry I think he would do something about Healthcare, do what he could to stem the tide of jobs going overseas, and I think he really believes in this country. This is all I am going to say on this subject.
So Kerry could bankrupt our country with National Heathcare and destroy the economy by stopping the natural progression of jobs going overseas (why does nobody talk about all the jobs that come HERE FROM overseas??)
I could tell how much he belives in America and its people by that glowing book he wrote and by the testimony he gave about the monsters in Vietnam and how commiting atrocities was a common and encouraged practice..
-------------------- Had a blingin' 2000 SS
Now I have a "soon to be" blingin' LS1 powered 1969 SS
quote:Originally posted by ss_rs_z: ...As for Kerry I think he would do something about Healthcare, do what he could to stem the tide of jobs going overseas, and I think he really believes in this country. This is all I am going to say on this subject.
So Kerry could bankrupt our country with National Heathcare and destroy the economy by stopping the natural progression of jobs going overseas (why does nobody talk about all the jobs that come HERE FROM overseas??)
I could tell how much he belives in America and its people by that glowing book he wrote and by the testimony he gave about the monsters in Vietnam and how commiting atrocities was a common and encouraged practice..
I was talking with my neighbor yesterday and he mentioned a discussion with a friend of his. They were talking about overseas jobs. His friend was a major executive for some corporation...I can't remember which one!! The take away is this: Many of the outsourced jobs are low level jobs, the money it brings to workers in other countries allows them to buy more product from the world economy. Much of the product sold on the world market ends up providing profit and gains to the US economy.
It's not so simple to say stop outsourcing. Doing so is a limitaion on capitalism and will reap more harm to our economy than good. What we need to keep diong is what we do best, new teechnology through space exploration or military invention etc...remember, our good friend the Internet (when Al Gore was inthe Pentagon ) was originally a military means of communication.
Posts: 545 | From: Gardnerville, NV. | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ss_rs_z: ...As for Kerry I think he would do something about Healthcare, do what he could to stem the tide of jobs going overseas, and I think he really believes in this country. This is all I am going to say on this subject.
So Kerry could bankrupt our country with National Heathcare and destroy the economy by stopping the natural progression of jobs going overseas (why does nobody talk about all the jobs that come HERE FROM overseas??)
I could tell how much he belives in America and its people by that glowing book he wrote and by the testimony he gave about the monsters in Vietnam and how commiting atrocities was a common and encouraged practice..
The Country is bankrupt. The National debt is rising every single day. Now I never liked Clinton and don't even give him any credit whatsoever the way the economy was booming in the mid to late 90's but at least we had a surplus over over 200,000,000 billion I believe if my mind serves me correctly when he left office.
As for the war atrocities, I have never heard of any he may have been involved in. Of course there were some done just as there are some that have been committed in Iraq but I have never heard of any he may have been in.
As for jobs coming over here, I have never heard of any of those either. Nothing printed or said about that I know of or any of my friends knowing of either.
posted
It's not so simple to say stop outsourcing. Doing so is a limitaion on capitalism and will reap more harm to our economy than good. What we need to keep diong is what we do best, new teechnology through space exploration or military invention etc...remember, our good friend the Internet (when Al Gore was inthe Pentagon ) was originally a military means of communication.
I thought Al Gore said he invented the Internet.............LOL.
As for outsourcing I don't think you will ever stop that.........all I am saying is Companies like Levi's closing up in Texas and moving to China, Tyco closing up and moving to China, Textile Mills closing and moving to China. These are good paying jobs going overseas with more to follow. We have a Refrigeration company here in Michigan which is closing up and moving 2200 jobs to Mexico within two years amnong another 45,000 Michigan jobs that will possibly be leaving the state over the next 10. These are the jobs I am speaking about. The Middle Class is shrinking more and more all the time. This is where the problems lie at the moment and something needs to be done.
Posts: 2841 | From: Westland, MI | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Well Clinton didnt have the effects of a recession combined with the economic impact of 9/11 either.. We also have a war were fighting..
Ive heard MANY economists talk about the National Debt as irrelevent.. If we don't make the payments will the white house be reposessed? We have always been a nation of spenders and thats one reason why our economy continues to outpace the ones in other countries..
Also when adjusted for inflation our dept as a factor of GDP is not THAT bad.. just like gas is cheaper now than in 1991 when adjusted for inflation..
Its a lot like the movies.. Titanic beat Star Wars in ticket sales but did more people SEE Titanic? It cost like $4 to see Star Wars and $8 to see Titanic.. If they adjusted for inflation the Star Wars would still be #1
Many overseas companies employee hundreds of thousands of employees here in the US.. Like it or not we are moving away from being a simple mfg economy and we are more of an information and services economy.. its our own fault since we would rather save $1 on a pair of socks from China than ones made here. WE, through our desire for cheap goods, force the jobs to be outsourced.. We need to deal with it and learn new skill sets much like what happened when we moved for an agricultural based economy to an industrial one.
There is no way Kerry can fix this to any meaningful extent.. to say he can is untrue..
-------------------- Had a blingin' 2000 SS
Now I have a "soon to be" blingin' LS1 powered 1969 SS
posted
I see where you are coming from now and yes you are right that there are many companies from overseas that employ people. Some of them are decent paying and some aren't. But we still need the manufacturing area as well as information and services for employment.
As for the National Debt I have heard otherwise which can lead to another recession along with interest rate hikes and it looks as though the rate hikes are inevitable now. But we shall see.
The Middle Class is shinking like never before and most of the burden of taxes lies with them. If the jobs aren't there then programs of any nature can't be paid for. This is why taxation has to be evenly squared out for everyone.
As for Star Wars vs Titanic........I'll take Star Wars anytime. As for Kerry fixing the problems well lets wait and see how the election comes out and go from there.
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